How saliva changes the buffle shape? (Mouthpiece Work Yahoo Group)

FROM: axakov (axakov)

SUBJECT: How saliva changes the buffle shape?

    I've seeing some TenorSax MP - copy of 'Briton' or 'Bryton' or 
similar make. It had  a white/yellowish colour, the buffle looked as 
two Niagaras shaped as a heart (or buttoks?). The owner told me 
that it was made of an ivory and designed for a Coltrane-style 
playing.    
     I've got an idea that similar  buffle shapes are attempts to 
recreate a tabako chewer's thick salive shape deformed by pulsing air-
stream and providing that specific hissing sound. I used to watch a 
lot of gas/liquid streams in experimental unit channels: liquid tends 
to stack on a buffle-like surfaces (just take a look what happens in 
the shampooer sucking nozzle!). 
   Another idea is that those niagaras create a shelter for the 
saliva, it waves and the timbre changes many times per second. 
    Did somebody try putting drops of a thick liquid compound where 
buffle meets side rails and blowing with a compressor until hardening?
 

Thanks to behappy3333 for letting me know this forum exists.

FROM: kymarto (Toby)

SUBJECT: Re: How saliva changes the buffle shape?

I doubt that saliva has much effect on the sounding of the mpc. I was an oboe player for many years, and the reed stape is so small that even a small coating of saliva inside changes the shape and size proportionally much more than in a mpc, and it has no noticeable effect. The walls of the bore need to be rigid, and saliva is not rigid, therefore it would not effectively change the shape or size of the bore. It might slightly change the tonal characteristics by having some effect on the boundary layer, but it would be small.

Toby

----- Original Message -----
From: axakov
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:00 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] How saliva changes the buffle shape?

I've seeing some TenorSax MP - copy of 'Briton' or 'Bryton' or
similar make. It had a white/yellowish colour, the buffle looked as
two Niagaras shaped as a heart (or buttoks?). The owner told me
that it was made of an ivory and designed for a Coltrane-style
playing.
I've got an idea that similar buffle shapes are attempts to
recreate a tabako chewer's thick salive shape deformed by pulsing air-
stream and providing that specific hissing sound. I used to watch a
lot of gas/liquid streams in experimental unit channels: liquid tends
to stack on a buffle-like surfaces (just take a look what happens in
the shampooer sucking nozzle!).
Another idea is that those niagaras create a shelter for the
saliva, it waves and the timbre changes many times per second.
Did somebody try putting drops of a thick liquid compound where
buffle meets side rails and blowing with a compressor until hardening?

Thanks to behappy3333 for letting me know this forum exists.

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FROM: billmecca (billmecca)

SUBJECT: Re: How saliva changes the buffle shape?

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "axakov" <axakov@y...> wrote:
> 
>     I've seeing some TenorSax MP - copy of 'Briton' or 'Bryton' or 
> similar make. It had  a white/yellowish colour, the buffle looked 
as 
> two Niagaras shaped as a heart (or buttoks?). The owner told me 
> that it was made of an ivory and designed for a Coltrane-style 
> playing.    
>      

Probably a Britone, made in the UK. I had my hands on one years ago, 
never got to play it. Ralph Morgan, I believe, in one of his SJ 
columns described the sound as extremely shrill. a friend of mine had 
it with a bunch of other mpcs, but we searched and searched and 
couldn't find it again.

FROM: merlin_williams_toronto (merlin_williams_toronto)

SUBJECT: Re: How saliva changes the buffle shape?

I've seen Britone's for alto and tenor. Played the tenor one - shrill 
may be an understatement.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "billmecca" <bill@b...> wrote:
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "axakov" <axakov@y...> wrote:
> > 
> >     I've seeing some TenorSax MP - copy of 'Briton' or 'Bryton' 
or 
> > similar make. It had  a white/yellowish colour, the buffle looked 
> as 
> > two Niagaras shaped as a heart (or buttoks?). The owner told me 
> > that it was made of an ivory and designed for a Coltrane-style 
> > playing.    
> >      
> 
> Probably a Britone, made in the UK. I had my hands on one years 
ago, 
> never got to play it. Ralph Morgan, I believe, in one of his SJ 
> columns described the sound as extremely shrill. a friend of mine 
had 
> it with a bunch of other mpcs, but we searched and searched and 
> couldn't find it again.

FROM: axakov (axakov)

SUBJECT: Re: How saliva ../ thanks / + new FIXTURE related question

Thanks to all for so qualified venting of my questions and thanks in 
advance for possible further interesting additions. 

They say there are no bad questions, there are bad answers.
I want to ask some of such sort. 

Introduction:

I want to reinvent, design and build 2 competitive fixtures for
A) making any permanent given radius and length facings;
B) putting a copy of customer's MP fancy facing on the another MP; 
the artisan saves the curve on a phisical carrier- cardboard disk 
with original MP's measuring marks; during the copy-recording/making 
process he does not use feeler gages but controls the tip opening. 
Both fixtures are manual, not CNC, provides equal siderails 
height by their very nature.

  Question 1.
I want to know how high the bar is: what times it takes to make each 
of mentioned facings by some good MP refacer having no CNC machine 
but using his very private technique and equipment. (Chamber work is 
excluded). (Please do not mention any names!)
  Question 2.
What percentage of customers are satisfied with radial curve? By 
other words: which fixture would be more on demand?

Fixture price roughest intuitive estimation would be 700 US$ for 
either plus minus 30%.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "merlin_williams_toronto" 
<fred_bloggs_ca@y...> wrote:
> 
> I've seen Britone's for alto and tenor. Played the tenor one - 
shrill 
> may be an understatement.
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "billmecca" <bill@b...> 
wrote:
> > 
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "axakov" <axakov@y...> 
wrote:
> > > 
> > >     I've seeing some TenorSax MP - copy of 'Briton' or 'Bryton' 
> or 
> > > similar make. It had  a white/yellowish colour, the buffle 
looked 
> > as 
> > > two Niagaras shaped as a heart (or buttoks?). The owner told me 
> > > that it was made of an ivory and designed for a Coltrane-style 
> > > playing.    
> > >      
> > 
> > Probably a Britone, made in the UK. I had my hands on one years 
> ago, 
> > never got to play it. Ralph Morgan, I believe, in one of his SJ 
> > columns described the sound as extremely shrill. a friend of mine 
> had 
> > it with a bunch of other mpcs, but we searched and searched and 
> > couldn't find it again.