Generally speaking what is now considered a large chamber gives a more correct volume at the top of the horn and so generally would tend to play more in tune than a modern small chambered piece. A large chamber doesn't really add a "detour" for the air stream, as you have standing waves in there instead of a linear airflow, but it certainly is an important determinant of the overall sound and how the reed vibrations couple with the air column. I also tend to like larger-chambered pieces--the "body" they give the tone, but as you point out you wouldn't want to use one in an electric band. 

I seriously doubt that any ding or dent in a neck that reduces the volume at that point by less than 20% is going to have a noticeable effect on intonation--OTOH as Niewood points out it won't hurt to get them taken out--just don't expect that to solve your problems.

Toby
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: aniewood 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 5:11 PM
  Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Martin Bari -- Large chamber pieces



  I am not a scientist, and don't have command of all the techno-talk 
  like Toby and some other contributors, however...

  I would think that the dents or dings in your neck would effect 
  intonation... Is it the cause of your problems?  You won't know
  until you take the dents out.  It's worth a shot, and I can't
  see
  any negative side-effects to removing dents in your instrument. Your 
  Bari was originally designed w/out those dents.  Once you diminish 
  the volume of the neck, it's going to effect the intonation.  

    As far as the chamber size of mouthpieces.        
  I like to expand the chamber size of my personal mouthpieces with a 
  Foredom Flex-shaft machine.   In studying the chambers of older
  Otto 
  Link Master Links and Tone Masters. one will find that the
  chamber is 
  much larger than that of a STM.  I believe that opening up the 
  chamber size gives the player more flexibility with the intonation.  
  It also makes the piece a little harder to control; so in other words 
  for professional players only - don't go putting beginners or your 
  students on a large chamber piece.  However, it aids a player looking 
  for a "dark" sound, without having to lower the baffle
  profile so low 
  that the piece blows dead.  In some cases, if you leave the baffle 
  profile on the "high" side, and expand the chamber - cool things 
  start to happen in the overall tambour and tone quality.  In essence 
  you're creating a detour that the air-stream has to follow before 
  entering the neck.  Personnally I am not really concerned with 
  volume, as I play acoustic music in jazz clubs with a good sound 
  system, and with great players who play with good dynamics. In
  other 
  words, I never have to tell Bill Goodwin, Eric Lewis, Bill Charlap, 
  Rufus Reid, Noah Jarrett, Matt Brewer, Ben Perowsky etc. to play 
  softer, as they listen well and adjust their own playing volume to 
  fit that of the other players in the band.   So in essence, what I am 
  saying is that playing a large chamber piece is not for everyone, it 
  depends on your musical situation, and certainly is not for the 
  rocker - or club-date cat trying to compete with a guitar amplified 
  through a Marshal Stack...

    For the player looking to get a bright - loud sound - I
  wouldn't suggest adjusting the chamber size of your piece. 
  Many 
  people believe that altering the mouthpieces original specs, ruins 
  the piece.   So I don't go out of my way to encourage people
  to
  have me expand the chamber on their pieces.  it's also a lot
  of extra 
  work and cannot be included in the standard price of a reface.

       For soprano especially, a large chamber adds to the overall 
  sound qualities.  I play a slant-line otto link that I have had for a 
  while, on a mark vi soprano.  Wayne Shorter is my favorite soprano 
  player (sorry Dad - you know I love you) and he plays a
  slant-line link.  Many players are looking for that sound, and have 
  trouble getting it on the standard small chamber pieces based on the 
  Selmer Soloist design.  Large Chamber links are not a dime a dozen, 
  so what I have been doing lately, is recreating that chamber style on 
  new production pieces.  It can be done to almost any piece..   
  The 
  final outcome (depending on the individual) is a Warm, Dark, 
  beautiful sound. And ease of playing in all registers, with none of 
  the "nasal" qualities often associated with soprano sax (They
  don't 
  call it fish-horn for nothing)
         
  Large chamber pieces are more work to play, but the extra out-
  put is well worth the sound you get.

  -Niewood 






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You can experiment a little on what neck dinks might do.  Take a 
good neck and add some temporary putty inside it in spots.  See what 
it does.

Same thing for chamber volume.  Put some putty in the chamber of a 
large chamber piece and see if it makes your intonation situation 
worse or better.  If it gets worse, you should consider trying a 
larger chamber mouthpiece.

In general, smaller chamber mouthpieces have a similar volume when 
tuned on a sax as larger chambered mouthpieces.  The smaller 
chambered MPs are longer in design and/or are tuned farther out on 
the cork to obtain the correct volume to get most of the sax in 
tune.  What mostly changes is the intonation of the extremes (as 
well as the tone quality).  This is most heard in the palm keys.  A 
small chamber MP will flatten the palm keys in relation to the rest 
of the sax.  Chamber volume can help the C2 and C3 relationship too, 
but it usually is not real helpful with the RH notes.

I have a "The Martin" bari (1958, low Bb) that I played for years, which 
has the same problem - all the notes line up within reason except the 
second-octave E and F.  Steve Goodson has one also - same problem.  
Steve has claimed to me that drilling out the octave key hole (a tiny 
amount) solves or helps this problem.  I don't know if that's the case - 
I've never had that done, since it would be irreversible.

Dan

>>>I've never had that done, since it would be irreversible.

Not reversable, but you could get back to a smaller pip.  A new one could
be made and soldered on.  Or, it could be filled with something, like
epoxy, and drilled out.


		
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Since the last time you visited with me, Dan (and it's been too long!), I've
replaced the pips and the intonation has significantly improved. I've also
switched to a JodyJazz ESP mouthpiece, and this seems to have helped, as
well. The pip on the neck is about 30% larger in diameter and has a longer
skirt at the base. It is also "rifled" to help reduce the whisper found on
the upper tones. The body pip is also significantly larger, and has a
significantly longer tube.

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Bradbury [mailto:kwbradbury@...] 
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 8:46 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Martin Bari -- Large chamber pieces



>>>I've never had that done, since it would be irreversible.

Not reversable, but you could get back to a smaller pip.  A new one could be
made and soldered on.  Or, it could be filled with something, like epoxy,
and drilled out.


		
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This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------Cool. Has that Tim Allen, Tool Time, Hot Rod modification aspect to it also!
Yes, Steve, I miss NOLA.  
  
Dan  
  
STEVE GOODSON wrote:  

>
>     Since the last time you visited with me, Dan (and it's been too
>     long!), I've replaced the pips and the intonation has significantly
> improved.
>     I've also switched to a JodyJazz ESP mouthpiece, and this seems to have
>     helped, as well. The pip on the neck is about 30% larger in diameter and
> has a
>     longer skirt at the base. It is also "rifled" to help reduce the whisper
> found
>     on the upper tones. The body pip is also significantly larger, and has a
>     significantly longer tube. \-----Original Message----- From: Keith
> Bradbury
>     [[mailto:kwbradbury@...](mailto:kwbradbury@...)] Sent: Sunday, December
>     26, 2004 8:46 AM To:
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com)
>     Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Martin Bari -- Large chamber pieces
>

>> > >

>>>>     I've never had that done, since it would be irreversible.

>  
>  
>      Not reversable,
>     but you could get back to a smaller pip. A new one could be made and
> soldered
>     on. Or, it could be filled with something, like epoxy, and drilled out.
>     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with
> you!
>     Get it on your mobile phone. 
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>     to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. To
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>     modify your groups, go to 
>     Yahoo! Groups Links \------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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