I just had an idearrr.  Anyone ever try to glue on a "stop" on the 
zero end of a graduated glass guage?  It would become an "L" shaped 
gizmo.  You would keep the stop rested on the tip of the mouthpiece 
while measuring.  That has to be more a repeatable "fixture" than a 
flat guage.

great idearr!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Keith Bradbury 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:38 PM
  Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Glass guage with stop



  I just had an idearrr.  Anyone ever try to glue on a "stop" on the 
  zero end of a graduated glass guage?  It would become an "L" shaped 
  gizmo.  You would keep the stop rested on the tip of the mouthpiece 
  while measuring.  That has to be more a repeatable "fixture" than a 
  flat guage.





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That sounds like a good idea, but I think there would be a problem. 
If the stop is on the top/front(zero end) of the gage it would be
difficult to get the feelers under the tip. 

A more complicated but better idea I think would be the opposite. Have
a stop at the shank end that is adjustable. You could set it so when
the shank is against it the tip is at zero, then tighten the
adjustment so it can't move. Then you just put the mouthpiece on so
that the shank is against the stop and the tip would be a zero with
plenty of space for the feeler gages to be inserted. 

What do you think. 

Cass. 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "michael d. collins"
<chedoggy@e...> wrote:
> great idearr!
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Keith Bradbury 
>   To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:38 PM
>   Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Glass guage with stop
> 
> 
> 
>   I just had an idearrr.  Anyone ever try to glue on a "stop" on the 
>   zero end of a graduated glass guage?  It would become an "L" shaped 
>   gizmo.  You would keep the stop rested on the tip of the mouthpiece 
>   while measuring.  That has to be more a repeatable "fixture" than a 
>   flat guage.
> 
> 
> 
> 

> 
>   Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> 
>   Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to
see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> 
>   To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>          
>         Get unlimited calls to
> 
>         U.S./Canada
>        
>        
> 
> 
>
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>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/
>       
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Service.

>>>it would be difficult to get the feelers under the tip. 

Ha!  It would be impossible to get the feelers in from the top!  So much
for a dose of reality.



		
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One thing to keep in mind... The measurements and numbers are only a 
guide, a reference.  My teacher "Ken Tubbs" always tells me "Adam, 
don't chase the numbers man - they are only half of the 
equation..."   He is right, above all – the piece should feel
good when one is playing music on it.
  
  We all have to walk this fine line, a tightrope of sorts, between 
too much, and too little.  Driving ourselves crazy with the 
calibration end of things could take away from the "feel" aspect of 
the artform.

   I've played pieces that "measure-up" perfectly on all levels, yet 
play like total crap.  And on the other end... I've measured many 
professional players' pieces that are totally messed up.   Take
David Liebman for example... His favorite soprano piece was made by a 
clarinet guy in France.  It is a Selmer S80 F that was opened up 
to .105 (What??? I know it sounds crazy cause it is) He loves the 
piece, and has never found a duplicate.  The piece measures up 
totally crooked on every measurement, yet he loves the way it 
plays...  He says the guy who made it uses no measuring tools.  Just 
does the work by "feel".  Lieb admits that the guy is not a refacer 
by trade, and that they where messing around and somehow hit the 
mark.  However, Lieb says that the guy has never been able to 
duplicate the work again....
  Kenny Garrett, the same type of situation with his Selmer
soloist…  The .0015 gauges slides all the way back past the
window, his tip rail... don't even get me started on his tip rail...  
It is so fat, it looks as though somone tipped the piece up on 
sandpaper, opened it up and never trimmed the tip rail down again.  
Or maybe, he just played it for so many years that the tiprail got 
thicker and thicker, etc...  In both cases, The table convex, the 
measurements totally off… if any mouthpiece refacer saw these
pieces – they would faint.  By our theories, the pieces are a 
bastardization of all that we strive to accomplish in our work… Yet 
it is the only thing that makes these men happy.  What's wrong with 
this picture?
 
     I'm not saying that we should all go throw away our tools... I'm 
certainly not going to.  I'm still going to do all my work from an 
educated place, taking measurements every step of the way.  But isn't 
it ironic that some of today's most celebrated saxophonists play 
pieces that are completely F-ed up…  It makes me think - "f-ed up
for who?"  If I found a piece in that kind of condition I would laugh 
to myself, and have to "fix" it. 
And some people are searching for that sound, they would donate a 
limb to have one of those players pieces, and don't know that it's 
not the piece.  It's the player - not the equipment, period.

      If we all can find a place somewhere in the middle of "Science" 
and "Feel" - maybe we can find mouthpiece nirvana….

Merry Christmas all…..

 Adam Niewood

--- aniewood <aniewood@...> wrote:

> 
> One thing to keep in mind... The measurements and
> numbers are only a 
> guide, a reference.  My teacher "Ken Tubbs" always
> tells me "Adam, 
> don't chase the numbers man - they are only half of
> the 
> equation..."   He is right, above all � the piece
> should feel
> good when one is playing music on it.
>   
>   We all have to walk this fine line, a tightrope of
> sorts, between 
> too much, and too little.  Driving ourselves crazy
> with the 
> calibration end of things could take away from the
> "feel" aspect of 
> the artform.
> 
>    I've played pieces that "measure-up" perfectly on
> all levels, yet 
> play like total crap.  And on the other end... I've
> measured many 
> professional players' pieces that are totally messed
> up.   Take
> David Liebman for example... His favorite soprano
> piece was made by a 
> clarinet guy in France.  It is a Selmer S80 F that
> was opened up 
> to .105 (What??? I know it sounds crazy cause it is)
> He loves the 
> piece, and has never found a duplicate.  The piece
> measures up 
> totally crooked on every measurement, yet he loves
> the way it 
> plays...  He says the guy who made it uses no
> measuring tools.  Just 
> does the work by "feel".  Lieb admits that the guy
> is not a refacer 
> by trade, and that they where messing around and
> somehow hit the 
> mark.  However, Lieb says that the guy has never
> been able to 
> duplicate the work again....
>   Kenny Garrett, the same type of situation with his
> Selmer
> soloist�  The .0015 gauges slides all the way back
> past the
> window, his tip rail... don't even get me started on
> his tip rail...  
> It is so fat, it looks as though somone tipped the
> piece up on 
> sandpaper, opened it up and never trimmed the tip
> rail down again.  
> Or maybe, he just played it for so many years that
> the tiprail got 
> thicker and thicker, etc...  In both cases, The
> table convex, the 
> measurements totally off� if any mouthpiece refacer
> saw these
> pieces � they would faint.  By our theories, the
> pieces are a 
> bastardization of all that we strive to accomplish
> in our work� Yet 
> it is the only thing that makes these men happy. 
> What's wrong with 
> this picture?
>  
>      I'm not saying that we should all go throw away
> our tools... I'm 
> certainly not going to.  I'm still going to do all
> my work from an 
> educated place, taking measurements every step of
> the way.  But isn't 
> it ironic that some of today's most celebrated
> saxophonists play 
> pieces that are completely F-ed up�  It makes me
> think - "f-ed up
> for who?"  If I found a piece in that kind of
> condition I would laugh 
> to myself, and have to "fix" it. 
> And some people are searching for that sound, they
> would donate a 
> limb to have one of those players pieces, and don't
> know that it's 
> not the piece.  It's the player - not the equipment,
> period.
> 
>       If we all can find a place somewhere in the
> middle of "Science" 
> and "Feel" - maybe we can find mouthpiece nirvana�.
> 
> Merry Christmas all�..
> 
>  Adam Niewood
> 
> 
> Adam:

VERY true!  I have a Beechler that I love, (actually
3), they ARE TOTALLY off and uneven, but maybe that's
why Eric Brand talked about uneven facings, and
"crooked" rails and sometimes players like the piece
the way it is, and even duplicating
them.  Oh well.

Happy holidays to all,

Bob> 
> 



		
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I may have posted this a few months ago, but when I started using 
microscope slides as glass gages, I'd glue wooden sticks from the 
craft store on the glass both along the sides of the table of the 
mouthpiece. Then a stick at the back of the table acts as a stop. 
Just slide the mouthpiece into postion. Since the microscope glasses 
cost only pennies, no big deal.

I'm really sold on the homemade glass gage. There are so many 
advantages for me, I probably won't ever go back to using a standard 
glass gage.

And hey, Merry Christas Y'all from Houston. It sure is nice to be 
alive to see another Christmas.

Jon Lloyd