This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------I have a metal Otto Link "Super Tone Master" (mid 80s) tenor mouthpiece. It is
marked as a 6 (next to the table, not on the shank), but the tip opening
measured .085. It has a prominent metallic "chirp" to the sound which easily
turns into a super-high squeak (especially above the A above the staff).  
  
I flattened the table (which was very low in the middle), opened the tip to a
.100 (about the minimum needed to get a radial curve), lengthened the facing
to 46 (23mm), got the curve very, very close to my target measurements,
brought the now-too-high baffle down, straightened the side rails where they
had broadened near the tip, got a nice even-looking tip rail.  
  
While it plays much easier now, that chirp is still as strong as ever. It has
remained through every stage of play-testing so far. Another tenor player
loaned me a 70s metal Link (marked 4, but measuring .078) which has the same
problem.  
  
I appeal to the collective experience of the group here - any insights? Thanks
in advance.  
  
Dan  

What reeds are you using?

Paul

Dan Torosian wrote:

> I have a metal Otto Link "Super Tone Master" (mid 80s) tenor 
> mouthpiece.  It is marked as a 6 (next to the table, not on the 
> shank), but the tip opening measured .085.  It has a prominent 
> metallic "chirp" to the sound which easily turns into a super-high 
> squeak (especially above the A above the staff).
>
> I flattened the table (which was very low in the middle), opened the 
> tip to a .100 (about the minimum needed to get a radial curve), 
> lengthened the facing to 46 (23mm), got the curve very, very close to 
> my target measurements, brought the now-too-high baffle down, 
> straightened the side rails where they had broadened near the tip, got 
> a nice even-looking tip rail.
>
> While it plays much easier now, that chirp is still as strong as 
> ever.  It has remained through every stage of play-testing so far.  
> Another tenor player loaned me a 70s metal Link (marked 4, but 
> measuring .078) which has the same problem.
>
> I appeal to the collective experience of the group here - any 
> insights?  Thanks in advance.
>
> Dan
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
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This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------So far: Rico Jazz Select (3S), Superial (3), Vandoren V-16 (3). I even tried
an old brown- box Rico #5 (which had been sanded down to about a 4). All of
these reeds played OK (some play very well) on other mouthpieces. It was a
little better with the Superials and with the heavier Rico. I'll keep trying
different reeds.  
  
Dan  
  
Paul Coats wrote:  

> What reeds are you using?  
>  
>  Paul  
>  
>  Dan Torosian wrote:  
>
>

>> I have a metal Otto Link "Super Tone Master" (mid 80s) tenor mouthpiece. It
is marked as a 6 (next to the table, not on the shank), but the tip opening
measured .085. It has a prominent metallic "chirp" to the sound which easily
turns into a super- high squeak (especially above the A above the staff).  
>  
>  I flattened the table (which was very low in the middle), opened the tip to
> a .100 (about the minimum needed to get a radial curve), lengthened the
> facing to 46 (23mm), got the curve very, very close to my target
> measurements, brought the now-too- high baffle down, straightened the side
> rails where they had broadened near the tip, got a nice even-looking tip
> rail.  
>  
>  While it plays much easier now, that chirp is still as strong as ever. It
> has remained through every stage of play-testing so far. Another tenor
> player loaned me a 70s metal Link (marked 4, but measuring .078) which has
> the same problem.  
>  
>  I appeal to the collective experience of the group here - any insights?
> Thanks in advance.  
>  
>  Dan  
>  
>  
>  `Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com)  
>  
>  Visit the site at  to see the
> Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.  
>  
>  To see and modify your groups, go to `  
>  
>  
>
>
>  
>  
>  ` Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com)  
>  
>  Visit the site at  to see the
> Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.  
>  
>  To see and modify your groups, go to `  
>  
>  
>

Here is a reply I previously composed on squeeking/chirping:

I have thought quite a bit on the physics of chirping.  The driving force
is high pressure.  Players almost never chirp at low sound volumes.  If a
piece is uneven or the facing curve has irregularities, it will not be
responsive and a player needs to use more pressure to make it speak.  With
high pressure often comes a tighter embouchure that closes off the tip
opening some.  This geometry is prone to squeaking� especially if the tip
is uneven and/or the baffle is high near the tip.  It allows the very tip
of the reed to vibrate like a mini reed at high frequency.  The high baffle
focuses the air even more.

The mouthpiece material has no effect on squeaks in my opinion.  However,
metal mouthpieces usually have higher baffles than non-metal mouthpieces. 
So it is common to think that metal is louder and squeaky.  But this is not
due to the material.

Players who like to play on the very tip of a mouthpiece are more prone to
chirps.  Players who take more mouthpiece in have less chirps.  When you
take in less mouthpiece, you usually close off some of the tip opening with
your embouchure.  A tight embouchure can do the same thing.  Often you
choose a harder reed to make this embouchure work for you.  Or you start
with too hard of a reed and forces your embouchure to be tight or towards
the tip.  This is not necessarily a bad embouchure.  Just be aware of the
factors at play here.

Reeds that have a thin tip and a thick heart are more prone to squeaks,
especially when used with long mouthpiece facings.  A Fibracell reed has a
cut that is difficult to make squeak.    When I use a Fibracell and take in
a little more mouthpiece, no mouthpiece squeaks for me.  However, some
players do not want to use Fibracells or change their embouchure.  Then,
working on the facing curve, tip rail and lowering the baffle some usually
helps.



		
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Thanks, Keith. I'm thinking the baffle still has to be reduced some 
more. It's still pretty high, and a little long (compared to other tenor 
mouthpieces I like) - I'm just being cautious when removing material. 
BTW, the table on this piece is significantly shorter than the reed. I 
have no idea if this would make any difference, but I'll try trimming a 
couple of reeds at the heel as an experiment.

Dan

Keith Bradbury wrote:

>Here is a reply I previously composed on squeeking/chirping:
>
>I have thought quite a bit on the physics of chirping.  The driving force
>is high pressure.  Players almost never chirp at low sound volumes.  If a
>piece is uneven or the facing curve has irregularities, it will not be
>responsive and a player needs to use more pressure to make it speak.  With
>high pressure often comes a tighter embouchure that closes off the tip
>opening some.  This geometry is prone to squeaking� especially if the tip
>is uneven and/or the baffle is high near the tip.  It allows the very tip
>of the reed to vibrate like a mini reed at high frequency.  The high baffle
>focuses the air even more.
>
>The mouthpiece material has no effect on squeaks in my opinion.  However,
>metal mouthpieces usually have higher baffles than non-metal mouthpieces. 
>So it is common to think that metal is louder and squeaky.  But this is not
>due to the material.
>
>Players who like to play on the very tip of a mouthpiece are more prone to
>chirps.  Players who take more mouthpiece in have less chirps.  When you
>take in less mouthpiece, you usually close off some of the tip opening with
>your embouchure.  A tight embouchure can do the same thing.  Often you
>choose a harder reed to make this embouchure work for you.  Or you start
>with too hard of a reed and forces your embouchure to be tight or towards
>the tip.  This is not necessarily a bad embouchure.  Just be aware of the
>factors at play here.
>
>Reeds that have a thin tip and a thick heart are more prone to squeaks,
>especially when used with long mouthpiece facings.  A Fibracell reed has a
>cut that is difficult to make squeak.    When I use a Fibracell and take in
>a little more mouthpiece, no mouthpiece squeaks for me.  However, some
>players do not want to use Fibracells or change their embouchure.  Then,
>working on the facing curve, tip rail and lowering the baffle some usually
>helps.
>
>
>
>		
>_______________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
>http://vote.yahoo.com
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>
>
>Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
>Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
>To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
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>
>.
>
>  
>

Check also for tiny leaks.  Examine the octave pads, make sure they are 
closing well.  Palm keys, etc.

I had a guy send me an RIA metal bari piece, same complaint.  He sent 
some of his reeds.  I put them on my bari, and I was squeeking, too.  My 
wife called from the other room, Paul, I have never heard you do that, 
what's the matter?

I tried some of my reeds, in this case, Fibracell, and the mouthpiece 
played great.  In fact, I sent it back untouched, and enclosed some 
Fibracells.  Well, the guy was thrilled.

Paul

Dan Torosian wrote:

>Thanks, Keith. I'm thinking the baffle still has to be reduced some 
>more. It's still pretty high, and a little long (compared to other tenor 
>mouthpieces I like) - I'm just being cautious when removing material. 
>BTW, the table on this piece is significantly shorter than the reed. I 
>have no idea if this would make any difference, but I'll try trimming a 
>couple of reeds at the heel as an experiment.
>
>Dan
>
>Keith Bradbury wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Here is a reply I previously composed on squeeking/chirping:
>>
>>I have thought quite a bit on the physics of chirping.  The driving force
>>is high pressure.  Players almost never chirp at low sound volumes.  If a
>>piece is uneven or the facing curve has irregularities, it will not be
>>responsive and a player needs to use more pressure to make it speak.  With
>>high pressure often comes a tighter embouchure that closes off the tip
>>opening some.  This geometry is prone to squeaking� especially if the tip
>>is uneven and/or the baffle is high near the tip.  It allows the very tip
>>of the reed to vibrate like a mini reed at high frequency.  The high baffle
>>focuses the air even more.
>>
>>The mouthpiece material has no effect on squeaks in my opinion.  However,
>>metal mouthpieces usually have higher baffles than non-metal mouthpieces. 
>>So it is common to think that metal is louder and squeaky.  But this is not
>>due to the material.
>>
>>Players who like to play on the very tip of a mouthpiece are more prone to
>>chirps.  Players who take more mouthpiece in have less chirps.  When you
>>take in less mouthpiece, you usually close off some of the tip opening with
>>your embouchure.  A tight embouchure can do the same thing.  Often you
>>choose a harder reed to make this embouchure work for you.  Or you start
>>with too hard of a reed and forces your embouchure to be tight or towards
>>the tip.  This is not necessarily a bad embouchure.  Just be aware of the
>>factors at play here.
>>
>>Reeds that have a thin tip and a thick heart are more prone to squeaks,
>>especially when used with long mouthpiece facings.  A Fibracell reed has a
>>cut that is difficult to make squeak.    When I use a Fibracell and take in
>>a little more mouthpiece, no mouthpiece squeaks for me.  However, some
>>players do not want to use Fibracells or change their embouchure.  Then,
>>working on the facing curve, tip rail and lowering the baffle some usually
>>helps.
>>
>>
>>
>>		
>>_______________________________
>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
>>http://vote.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>>
>>To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>.
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
>Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
>To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Metal 6 triggered my old chirping problem of some 20 years ago.  I just now
went down to my basement and check out the old link in my stash draw.  Yup a
Link 6*.  Seems like I remember  the chirps mainly occurred in around the
upper G sharp and A.   I knew another guy that had similar problems and they 
were blowing  a
Link also.

I suppose it could have been my embouchure but I got a Berg and the problem
was gone. I think the Berg is more open and I had to use a softer reed. 
Thus, things have changed so I couldn't compare.
 As I remember, back in the
80's(probably even earlier) metal Links were "in".  I'm not bashing Links 
but just replying to the post with my
experience.

BTW, I enjoy this group as a "wannabe" mouthpiece repairman.  Also I think 
Keith's analysis of chriping covers it.  If I knew  what I know, now, 
perhaps I could have made changes to make the Link work for me.

Jim Lemke

I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.
My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.  

Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU
I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@...> wrote:
>
> 
> I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.
> My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.
>

The volume/pitch match is not good, throwing everything off and making the short tube notes flattish, like you have a really water-logged reed.  I hear the A2 almost cracked.  The match is much better on the Barone HR 100.   You should be able to get the same even scale, comfortable upper register on the Sugal with a little more work.  If I had one I was altering, I'd mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg design.  That extra volume would necessitate pushing in more, which would even out the scale and fix the cracking notes.

--- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:

From: EgilF. <egfurre@broadpark.no>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 8:15 AM








 



  


    
      
      
      Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU

I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@...> wrote:

>

> 

> I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.

> My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.

>





    
     

    
    






  

Thanks for the advice! I would like to follow this advice, but I must admit that English is not my language, so I did not understand everything you wrote, especially this: "mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg" design." 

Isn't scoop-billed Berg a high baffle mouthpiece with a sharp edge where the baffle ends? I've already rounded the baffle where it enters the chamber. Should I round it more or should I make it sharper? Or is it the chamber that have to be bigger? I did not think that the baffle so far inside the mpc would create a squeak, I thought this was due to the baffle closer to the tip.

Egil

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>
> The volume/pitch match is not good, throwing everything off and making the short tube notes flattish, like you have a really water-logged reed.  I hear the A2 almost cracked.  The match is much better on the Barone HR 100.   You should be able to get the same even scale, comfortable upper register on the Sugal with a little more work.  If I had one I was altering, I'd mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg design.  That extra volume would necessitate pushing in more, which would even out the scale and fix the cracking notes.
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:
> 
> From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 8:15 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>     
>       
>       
>       Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU
> 
> I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@> wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.
> 
> > My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.
> 
> >
>

If you don't understand the first sentence - that the volume/frequency match is not good - then STOP and do nothing, until you do.  



--- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:

From: EgilF. <egfurre@broadpark.no>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 11:59 AM








 



  


    
      
      
      Thanks for the advice! I would like to follow this advice, but I must admit that English is not my language, so I did not understand everything you wrote, especially this: "mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg" design." 



Isn't scoop-billed Berg a high baffle mouthpiece with a sharp edge where the baffle ends? I've already rounded the baffle where it enters the chamber. Should I round it more or should I make it sharper? Or is it the chamber that have to be bigger? I did not think that the baffle so far inside the mpc would create a squeak, I thought this was due to the baffle closer to the tip.



Egil



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

>

> The volume/pitch match is not good, throwing everything off and making the short tube notes flattish, like you have a really water-logged reed.  I hear the A2 almost cracked.  The match is much better on the Barone HR 100.   You should be able to get the same even scale, comfortable upper register on the Sugal with a little more work.  If I had one I was altering, I'd mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg design.  That extra volume would necessitate pushing in more, which would even out the scale and fix the cracking notes.

> 

> --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:

> 

> From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>

> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"

> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

> Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 8:15 AM

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>  

> 

> 

> 

>   

> 

> 

>     

>       

>       

>       Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU

> 

> I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.

> 

> 

> 

> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@> wrote:

> 

> >

> 

> > 

> 

> > I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.

> 

> > My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.

> 

> >

>





    
     

    
    






  

That sentence I understood. I'm just trying to figure what's next move, before I do anything.



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>
> If you don't understand the first sentence - that the volume/frequency match is not good - then STOP and do nothing, until you do.  
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:
> 
> From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 11:59 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>     
>       
>       
>       Thanks for the advice! I would like to follow this advice, but I must admit that English is not my language, so I did not understand everything you wrote, especially this: "mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg" design." 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't scoop-billed Berg a high baffle mouthpiece with a sharp edge where the baffle ends? I've already rounded the baffle where it enters the chamber. Should I round it more or should I make it sharper? Or is it the chamber that have to be bigger? I did not think that the baffle so far inside the mpc would create a squeak, I thought this was due to the baffle closer to the tip.
> 
> 
> 
> Egil
> 
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@> wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > The volume/pitch match is not good, throwing everything off and making the short tube notes flattish, like you have a really water-logged reed.  I hear the A2 almost cracked.  The match is much better on the Barone HR 100.   You should be able to get the same even scale, comfortable upper register on the Sugal with a little more work.  If I had one I was altering, I'd mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg design.  That extra volume would necessitate pushing in more, which would even out the scale and fix the cracking notes.
> 
> > 
> 
> > --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > From: EgilF. <egfurre@>
> 
> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
> 
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> 
> > Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 8:15 AM
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> >  
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> >   
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> >     
> 
> >       
> 
> >       
> 
> >       Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU
> 
> > 
> 
> > I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.
> 
> > 
> 
> > > My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> >
>

FWIW my experience has been that chirps are caused, or at least made more probable, by a very high baffle just behind the tip rail. But is is not easy to change that on a metal mpc. You can use diamond half-round or round files, but slowly and carefully. 

You much check your side rails for evenness. If they are uneven that can definitely cause chirping. I've not found adjustment further back toward the chamber of any use in relation to chirps.


--- EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:
> That sentence I understood. I'm just trying to figure what's next move, before I do anything.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
> >
> > If you don't understand the first sentence - that the volume/frequency match is not good - then STOP and do nothing, until you do.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:
> > 
> > From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>
> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 11:59 AM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> >     
> >       
> >       
> >       Thanks for the advice! I would like to follow this advice, but I must admit that English is not my language, so I did not understand everything you wrote, especially this: "mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg" design." 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Isn't scoop-billed Berg a high baffle mouthpiece with a sharp edge where the baffle ends? I've already rounded the baffle where it enters the chamber. Should I round it more or should I make it sharper? Or is it the chamber that have to be bigger? I did not think that the baffle so far inside the mpc would create a squeak, I thought this was due to the baffle closer to the tip.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Egil
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > The volume/pitch match is not good, throwing everything off and making the short tube notes flattish, like you have a really water-logged reed.  I hear the A2 almost cracked.  The match is much better on the Barone HR 100.   You should be able to get the same even scale, comfortable upper register on the Sugal with a little more work.  If I had one I was altering, I'd mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg design.  That extra volume would necessitate pushing in more, which would even out the scale and fix the cracking notes.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > From: EgilF. <egfurre@>
> > 
> > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
> > 
> > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > > Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 8:15 AM
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > >  
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > >   
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > >     
> > 
> > >       
> > 
> > >       
> > 
> > >       Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > > I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > > My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 

Volume-frequency mismatch notwithstanding, I do not see how this would tend
cause a chirp as described.

I'd look for a slight bump on the facing curve, and rock the facing on glass
to see if it could felt; Keith has suggested that such bumps can also be
seen by examining how light is reflected off the facing curve

Also I'd measure the tip opening at each corner of the tip, using a tip
gauge with pointed probe and/ or check the straightness of the facing at the
very tip with a thick feeler gauge.

Re the advice to make it like a Berg, Lance, are you suggesting a bullet
shaped baffle cut-out?

Barry

> From: MartinMods <lancelotburt@...>
> Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 04:05:18 -0800 (PST)
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
> 
> 
>  
> If you don't understand the first sentence - that the volume/frequency match
> is not good - then STOP and do nothing, until you do.
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:
>> 
>> From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>
>> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
>> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 11:59 AM
>> 
>>  
>> Thanks for the advice! I would like to follow this advice, but I must admit
>> that English is not my language, so I did not understand everything you
>> wrote, especially this: "mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it
>> into a scoop-billed Berg" design."
>> 
>> Isn't scoop-billed Berg a high baffle mouthpiece with a sharp edge where the
>> baffle ends? I've already rounded the baffle where it enters the chamber.
>> Should I round it more or should I make it sharper? Or is it the chamber that
>> have to be bigger? I did not think that the baffle so far inside the mpc
>> would create a squeak, I thought this was due to the baffle closer to the
>> tip.
>> 
>> Egil
>> 
>> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>> </mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> , MartinMods
>> <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > The volume/pitch match is not good, throwing everything off and making the
>>> short tube notes flattish, like you have a really water-logged reed.  I
>>> hear the A2 almost cracked.  The match is much better on the Barone HR 100.
>>> Â  You should be able to get the same even scale, comfortable upper register
>>> on the Sugal with a little more work.  If I had one I was altering, I'd
>>> mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg
>>> design.  That extra volume would necessitate pushing in more, which would
>>> even out the scale and fix the cracking notes.
>>> > 
>>> > --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>
>>> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
>>> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>>> </mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> > Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 8:15 AM
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > Â 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> >   
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> >     
>>> >       
>>> >       
>>> >       Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU
>>> > 
>>> > I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>>> </mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> , "EgilF." <egfurre@>
>>> wrote:
>>> > 
>>>> > >
>>> > 
>>>> > > 
>>> > 
>>>> > > I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet
>>>> and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip
>>>> opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me
>>>> with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.
>>> > 
>>>> > > My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely
>>>> touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area
>>>> behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing
>>>> curve several times.
>>> > 
>>>> > >
>>> >
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Berg Larson mouthpieces are very good but differrent from a whalum sugal model significantly. Their are 4 differrent baffles on the classic Berg. They mark them with the tip opening first and then the baffle shape under that. You can go to ebay and copy the mouthpiece pictures of the various chamber designs. From their you can figure out exactly how high the baffle is on each type and how it is shaped. The bullet shape is the style where the chamber looks to be bored into the baffle and tapers in a bullet shape. The o models look like dukoffs with the baffle straight and no bullet shape to them. The baffle behind the tip also varies with each of the 4 chambers. One is similar to the trane link, while others are closer to a roll over look at the tip and others steeper.
 
Since you have a mouthpiece that you wish to modify I would suggest the following. I would buy an inexpensive close faced mouthpiece or two. First I would duplicate the facing on the Sugal. Next I would use dental wax and duplicate the baffle of the Sugal. You have the mouthpiece so measure and duplicate it. Now on the blank you can remove anywhere on the baffle material and add it back in until you find what you like.
 
I can not speak about science but until health took playing from me I taught and played professionaly for years.I read posts but rarely reply as I prefer to be helpfull. When teaching and when trying mouthpiecs and horns I would pay particular attention to A2. Students tend to play with more pressure in the low register and when they get to a2 start sounding terrible. They have not developed proper breathing as they start on the low register and it is easier to play in tune without adequate support. Why A2 is problematic is the octave vent moves from the body to the neck on that pitch. If the mouthpiece is not properly placed it will play 2 differrent scales on the instrument. With students I would use tunes like My one and only love to develop pitch awareness and proper breathing for intonation. Each vent destroys the fundamental allowing for the second partial to speak. D2 is the beginning of the first vent and A2 is the beginning of the second
 vent. It is not a coincidence that these are the most problematic tuning notes. When trying mouthpieces I learned to play intervals paying particular attention to d and a. I also would play the mouthpiece through the harmonic series listerning for intonation juast playing 1,3,5, octave in all keys. I found that occasionally a mouthpiece that I judged to be poor had a differrent tuning spot than my regular mouthpiece. When young I would play bebop licks and not choose the best mouthpiece. When I play test a mouthpiece I do the same arpeggios after each adjustment. If I have to change embouchure too much for intonation I know it is not right. Another thing that I used with students is something that Joe Allard taught which is playing the upper octave with out the octave key and then playing the lower octave like a flute player. It teaches lip pressure, oral cavity shape, and proper use of air in a way that is often difficult to describe to someone. I
 will say that most good pieces that I have played tend to tune well pushed very far in.
 
I wish you well in adjusting your Sugal. I hope that some of this helps. I am not trying to give a sax lesson I do not know how you play. I will end with one final thought. You said that you worked on the table. This would have shortened the space in the window between the reed and the baffle. If you get too little space you will chirp and/or  have a harder time with low notes. Good luck.    
From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:59 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"


  
Thanks for the advice! I would like to follow this advice, but I must admit that English is not my language, so I did not understand everything you wrote, especially this: "mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg" design." 

Isn't scoop-billed Berg a high baffle mouthpiece with a sharp edge where the baffle ends? I've already rounded the baffle where it enters the chamber. Should I round it more or should I make it sharper? Or is it the chamber that have to be bigger? I did not think that the baffle so far inside the mpc would create a squeak, I thought this was due to the baffle closer to the tip.

Egil

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>
> The volume/pitch match is not good, throwing everything off and making the short tube notes flattish, like you have a really water-logged reed.  I hear the A2 almost cracked.  The match is much better on the Barone HR 100.   You should be able to get the same even scale, comfortable upper register on the Sugal with a little more work.  If I had one I was altering, I'd mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg design.  That extra volume would necessitate pushing in more, which would even out the scale and fix the cracking notes.
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:
> 
> From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 8:15 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU
> 
> I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@> wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > 
> 
> > I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.
> 
> > My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.
> 
> >
>

IME chirping (when the mouthpiece is at fault) is usually the baffle being not just right height and/or not even.  Next is facing, either asymmetrical, or curving too tight somewhere, usually near the tip.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@...> wrote:
>
> Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU
> I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.
> > My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.
> >
>

What all the others said about chirping is correct, as I know you know, but a volume/frequency mismatch can cause chirping as well, and much worse.  Anything that affects the scale, affects the alignment of resonance peaks, and that alignment is what determines how easily or with what difficultly/how cleanly, notes speak.  It starts to become apparent in the upper register (A2-C#3) as note instability on attack, undefined pitch center, and undefined tonal center, where one is no longer able to match the reed resonance to the fingered fundamental resonance's upper mode, and maintain correct playing pitch comfortably.  The larger the mismatch, the more all aspects of pitch, tone, stability, and response suffer, until the reed just closes and stays closed.

In your Sugal case, the mismatch is just at the point where the pitch center is undefined and upper register attacks are starting to become unstable.

One must differentiate between volume/frequency considerations and chamber/baffle types which determine the basic tonal/response qualities.  If I'm making a mouthpiece, I first decide what chamber/baffle type I want (short roll-over, long roll-over, flat high baffle, squeeze, square, straight side walls, hollowed side walls, etc.,) for the respective characteristics they offer.  Once I know what sound I want, then I figure out how to match the volume/frequency using the remaining cavity volume distribution and if necessary, by making compromises in chamber/baffle design or volume/frequency.  Some extreme chambers designs can not be balanced.

So now you have lowered the baffle and rounded the drop-off.  If you like that sound, you have to figure out how to make the overall cavity a bit shorter and fatter to fix the problems and not loose the sound you like.  Fun!  In my experience with flat baffle pieces, removing material just after the drop-off is the most tonally neutral.  

Have any picts?





--- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@broadpark.no> wrote:

From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 1:01 PM








 



  


    
      
      
      That sentence I understood. I'm just trying to figure what's next move, before I do anything.



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

>

> If you don't understand the first sentence - that the volume/frequency match is not good - then STOP and do nothing, until you do.  

> 

> 

> 

> --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:

> 

> From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>

> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"

> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

> Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 11:59 AM

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>  

> 

> 

> 

>   

> 

> 

>     

>       

>       

>       Thanks for the advice! I would like to follow this advice, but I must admit that English is not my language, so I did not understand everything you wrote, especially this: "mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg" design." 

> 

> 

> 

> Isn't scoop-billed Berg a high baffle mouthpiece with a sharp edge where the baffle ends? I've already rounded the baffle where it enters the chamber. Should I round it more or should I make it sharper? Or is it the chamber that have to be bigger? I did not think that the baffle so far inside the mpc would create a squeak, I thought this was due to the baffle closer to the tip.

> 

> 

> 

> Egil

> 

> 

> 

> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@> wrote:

> 

> >

> 

> > The volume/pitch match is not good, throwing everything off and making the short tube notes flattish, like you have a really water-logged reed.  I hear the A2 almost cracked.  The match is much better on the Barone HR 100.   You should be able to get the same even scale, comfortable upper register on the Sugal with a little more work.  If I had one I was altering, I'd mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg design.  That extra volume would necessitate pushing in more, which would even out the scale and fix the cracking notes.

> 

> > 

> 

> > --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@> wrote:

> 

> > 

> 

> > From: EgilF. <egfurre@>

> 

> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"

> 

> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

> 

> > Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 8:15 AM

> 

> > 

> 

> > 

> 

> > 

> 

> > 

> 

> > 

> 

> > 

> 

> > 

> 

> > 

> 

> >  

> 

> > 

> 

> > 

> 

> > 

> 

> >   

> 

> > 

> 

> > 

> 

> >     

> 

> >       

> 

> >       

> 

> >       Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU

> 

> > 

> 

> > I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.

> 

> > 

> 

> > 

> 

> > 

> 

> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@> wrote:

> 

> > 

> 

> > >

> 

> > 

> 

> > > 

> 

> > 

> 

> > > I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.

> 

> > 

> 

> > > My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.

> 

> > 

> 

> > >

> 

> >

>





    
     

    
    






  

"Re the advice to make it like a Berg, Lance, are you suggesting a bullet shaped baffle cut-out?"

Had he not rounded the baffle drop-off, I would have suggested a straight edged drop-off, similar to the scoop-billed Berg Larsen, to retain as much of the original Sugal design as possible.  A bullet Berg drop-off would work too, but would be another step away from what he started with.



--- On Wed, 1/18/12, Barry Levine <barrylevine@norwoodlight.com> wrote:

From: Barry Levine <barrylevine@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 2:29 PM








 



  


    
      
      
      


Volume-frequency mismatch notwithstanding, I do not see how this would tend cause a chirp as described.



I'd look for a slight bump on the facing curve, and rock the facing on glass to see if it could felt; Keith has suggested that such bumps can also be seen by examining how light is reflected off the facing curve



Also I'd measure the tip opening at each corner of the tip, using a tip gauge with pointed probe and/ or check the straightness of the facing at the very tip with a thick feeler gauge.



Re the advice to make it like a Berg, Lance, are you suggesting a bullet shaped baffle cut-out?



Barry



From: MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com>

Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 04:05:18 -0800 (PST)

To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"





 

If you don't understand the first sentence - that the volume/frequency match is not good - then STOP and do nothing, until you do.  







--- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:



From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>

Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"

To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 11:59 AM



 

Thanks for the advice! I would like to follow this advice, but I must admit that English is not my language, so I did not understand everything you wrote, especially this: "mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg" design." 



Isn't scoop-billed Berg a high baffle mouthpiece with a sharp edge where the baffle ends? I've already rounded the baffle where it enters the chamber. Should I round it more or should I make it sharper? Or is it the chamber that have to be bigger? I did not think that the baffle so far inside the mpc would create a squeak, I thought this was due to the baffle closer to the tip.



Egil



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com </mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> , MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

>

> The volume/pitch match is not good, throwing everything off and making the short tube notes flattish, like you have a really water-logged reed.  I hear the A2 almost cracked.  The match is much better on the Barone HR 100.   You should be able to get the same even scale, comfortable upper register on the Sugal with a little more work.  If I had one I was altering, I'd mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg design.  That extra volume would necessitate pushing in more, which would even out the scale and fix the cracking notes.

> 

> --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:

> 

> From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>

> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"

> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com </mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> 

> Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 8:15 AM

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Â 

> 

> 

> 

>   

> 

> 

>     

>       

>       

>       Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU

> 

> I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.

> 

> 

> 

> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com </mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> , "EgilF." <egfurre@> wrote:

> 

> >

> 

> > 

> 

> > I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.

> 

> > My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.

> 

> >

>















    
     

    
    






  

This has been "a evening of chasing bumps and lowering baffles". I even made two new feelers by putting 2 and 3 together, just to measure the curve near the tip more exactly. I also "touched up" the whole facing curve and opened the tip from 102 to 105. I lowered the baffle more. And I started to file the area just behind the baffle, making the baffle a little shorter and more "step-like". 
All the way I test played it a several times. 

Pictures: http://flic.kr/s/aHsjy9rBEK
The last 5 pictures is taken today, after the last modifications. I even uploaded some taken before I bought it.

- ---- 
It has become darker and has a little more resistance. The squeak when I touch/open the palm Eb while playing a A2 is still there. Otherwise it don't squeak, (as before ...).

Despite my Sugal, I think this is fun and I learn a lot from You all. Thank You very much!!! 




--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@...> wrote:
>
> That sentence I understood. I'm just trying to figure what's next move, before I do anything.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@> wrote:
> >
> > If you don't understand the first sentence - that the volume/frequency match is not good - then STOP and do nothing, until you do.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@> wrote:
> > 
> > From: EgilF. <egfurre@>
> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 11:59 AM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> >     
> >       
> >       
> >       Thanks for the advice! I would like to follow this advice, but I must admit that English is not my language, so I did not understand everything you wrote, especially this: "mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg" design." 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Isn't scoop-billed Berg a high baffle mouthpiece with a sharp edge where the baffle ends? I've already rounded the baffle where it enters the chamber. Should I round it more or should I make it sharper? Or is it the chamber that have to be bigger? I did not think that the baffle so far inside the mpc would create a squeak, I thought this was due to the baffle closer to the tip.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Egil
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > The volume/pitch match is not good, throwing everything off and making the short tube notes flattish, like you have a really water-logged reed.  I hear the A2 almost cracked.  The match is much better on the Barone HR 100.   You should be able to get the same even scale, comfortable upper register on the Sugal with a little more work.  If I had one I was altering, I'd mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg design.  That extra volume would necessitate pushing in more, which would even out the scale and fix the cracking notes.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > From: EgilF. <egfurre@>
> > 
> > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
> > 
> > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > > Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 8:15 AM
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > >  
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > >   
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > >     
> > 
> > >       
> > 
> > >       
> > 
> > >       Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > > I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > > My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > >
> > 
> > >
> >
>

Everything you did (opening to .105, lowering/shortening baffle) improved your volume/frequency match, so I wouldn't be surprised if the pitch center is more defined, though, from the proportions I see, I'm guessing it still isn't as good as the Guardala or the Barone 100.

--- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:

From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 10:29 PM








 



  


    
      
      
      This has been "a evening of chasing bumps and lowering baffles". I even made two new feelers by putting 2 and 3 together, just to measure the curve near the tip more exactly. I also "touched up" the whole facing curve and opened the tip from 102 to 105. I lowered the baffle more. And I started to file the area just behind the baffle, making the baffle a little shorter and more "step-like". 

All the way I test played it a several times. 



Pictures: http://flic.kr/s/aHsjy9rBEK

The last 5 pictures is taken today, after the last modifications. I even uploaded some taken before I bought it.



- ---- 

It has become darker and has a little more resistance. The squeak when I touch/open the palm Eb while playing a A2 is still there. Otherwise it don't squeak, (as before ...).



Despite my Sugal, I think this is fun and I learn a lot from You all. Thank You very much!!! 



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@...> wrote:

>

> That sentence I understood. I'm just trying to figure what's next move, before I do anything.

> 

> 

> 

> --- In MouthpieceWork@...m, MartinMods <lancelotburt@> wrote:

> >

> > If you don't understand the first sentence - that the volume/frequency match is not good - then STOP and do nothing, until you do.  

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@> wrote:

> > 

> > From: EgilF. <egfurre@>

> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"

> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

> > Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 11:59 AM

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > 

> >  

> > 

> > 

> > 

> >   

> > 

> > 

> >     

> >       

> >       

> >       Thanks for the advice! I would like to follow this advice, but I must admit that English is not my language, so I did not understand everything you wrote, especially this: "mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg" design." 

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > Isn't scoop-billed Berg a high baffle mouthpiece with a sharp edge where the baffle ends? I've already rounded the baffle where it enters the chamber. Should I round it more or should I make it sharper? Or is it the chamber that have to be bigger? I did not think that the baffle so far inside the mpc would create a squeak, I thought this was due to the baffle closer to the tip.

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > Egil

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@> wrote:

> > 

> > >

> > 

> > > The volume/pitch match is not good, throwing everything off and making the short tube notes flattish, like you have a really water-logged reed.  I hear the A2 almost cracked.  The match is much better on the Barone HR 100.   You should be able to get the same even scale, comfortable upper register on the Sugal with a little more work.  If I had one I was altering, I'd mill out the slanted baffle drop-off, turning it into a scoop-billed Berg design.  That extra volume would necessitate pushing in more, which would even out the scale and fix the cracking notes.

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > --- On Wed, 1/18/12, EgilF. <egfurre@> wrote:

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > From: EgilF. <egfurre@>

> > 

> > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"

> > 

> > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

> > 

> > > Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 8:15 AM

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > >  

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > >   

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > >     

> > 

> > >       

> > 

> > >       

> > 

> > >       Here is a short video clip with: http://youtu.be/oYxsmBaLdCU

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > I can make one tonight where I "provoke" it to squeak.

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@> wrote:

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > >

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > > 

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > > I have a piece that was originally a Sugal SG II, which I have refacet and lowered the baffle so that it is midway between an SG I and SGII. Tip opening 102 after has leveled the table, facing length 46 Perfect for me with Vandoren V16 # 3 reeds.

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > > My a problem is: When I play A2 (loud) and open (or just barely touches) palm key Eb then it squeaks very loud. I have sanded down the area behind the tip rail, lowered the baffle, adjusted the table and facing curve several times.

> > 

> > > 

> > 

> > > >

> > 

> > >

> >

>





    
     

    
    






  

  Has your saxophone been checked for leaks at the top end , including a leak  between the neck and body?   Sometimes a mouthpiece that is more extreme in design will squeak when a more conservative piece will not if there is a leak in the sax.   The same goes with reeds. Sometimes a  reed will seem to play well but because it is not flat and there is not a good seal between reed and table , will squeak on certain notes.     Peter

I once had a customer, a long time friend, send me a bari mouthpiece, I think it was an RIA, that would chirp and squeak.  He sent me some of the reeds he was using.

As I was testing the mouthpiece my wife said from the other room, "I've NEVER heard you squeak like that!  You sound like a 5th grader!"

I check the facing, which measured even, and no detectable "kinks" or "bumps" in the facing.  The table was flat.  The mouthpiece looked well made and finished.  I could see nothing wrong.

I tried some of my reeds, and I could not force it to squeak or chirp.  I sent the mouthpiece back to him with a few new reeds of my brand (Fibracell), along with a bill for the reeds, and his mouthpiece unchanged.  He was very happy that a simple reed change solved his problem.

Also, a big mistake I often see when players try new mouthpieces is to use only their favorite brand and strength.  A different mouthpiece may very well need a different reed.

Paul C.

Yes Paul  that's good advice. When you are trying a new mouthpiece bring a variety of new reeds, not the one that has been working great on your favorite piece.
   Of course the synthetics, whether they work  for the player or not have the advantage of  being and staying flat. Peter

"Also, a big mistake I often see when players try new mouthpieces is to 
use only their favorite brand and strength.  A different mouthpiece may 
very well need a different reed."

Right on.  

When I send someone with vintage horn (Martin)/modern mouthpiece pitch issues, a mouthpiece matched to their horn, they often chirp and squeak initially.  I tell them that they have to:

1. try various reeds to get the best type for the new mouthpiece - their old reed just might not work

2. re-learn were all the notes are with the new set-up.  The wild adjustments they had been making to manage the old mismatched mouthpiece only cause a matched setup to behave poorly.  It can take a day or two.  Then they are ecstatic.

Yes, and if a mpc has unbalanced rails, reeds that are oppositely unbalanced will work better on it than balanced reeds...


--- tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...> wrote:
> I once had a customer, a long time friend, send me a bari mouthpiece, I think it was an RIA, that would chirp and squeak.  He sent me some of the reeds he was using.
> 
> As I was testing the mouthpiece my wife said from the other room, "I've NEVER heard you squeak like that!  You sound like a 5th grader!"
> 
> I check the facing, which measured even, and no detectable "kinks" or "bumps" in the facing.  The table was flat.  The mouthpiece looked well made and finished.  I could see nothing wrong.
> 
> I tried some of my reeds, and I could not force it to squeak or chirp.  I sent the mouthpiece back to him with a few new reeds of my brand (Fibracell), along with a bill for the reeds, and his mouthpiece unchanged.  He was very happy that a simple reed change solved his problem.
> 
> Also, a big mistake I often see when players try new mouthpieces is to use only their favorite brand and strength.  A different mouthpiece may very well need a different reed.
> 
> Paul C.
> 
> 

Not really. They take a set if you leave them on the mouthpiece. But you can remove them and bent them back. 

Bill Hausmann

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!

 Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2012, at 11:39 PM, Peter Deley <pfdeley@...> wrote:

> 
> 
> Yes Paul  that's good advice. When you are trying a new mouthpiece bring a variety of new reeds, not the one that has been working great on your favorite piece.
>    Of course the synthetics, whether they work  for the player or not have the advantage of  being and staying flat. Peter
> 
> 
> 

yea and amen. and one should not assume that a mouthpiece that has the same tip opening will take the same reed. facings with a more relaxed curve will take a harder reed than those with a tighter curve or a sharper break. This became clear to me recently when trying a Brilhart HR piece with the same tip opening as my link. I bought some softer reeds and, lo and behold, it plays like a dream. jt

--- aaIn MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>
> "Also, a big mistake I often see when players try new mouthpieces is to 
> use only their favorite brand and strength.  A different mouthpiece may 
> very well need a different reed."
> 
> Right on.  
> 
> When I send someone with vintage horn (Martin)/modern mouthpiece pitch issues, a mouthpiece matched to their horn, they often chirp and squeak initially.  I tell them that they have to:
> 
> 1. try various reeds to get the best type for the new mouthpiece - their old reed just might not work
> 
> 2. re-learn were all the notes are with the new set-up.  The wild adjustments they had been making to manage the old mismatched mouthpiece only cause a matched setup to behave poorly.  It can take a day or two.  Then they are ecstatic.
>

 Well there are two schools of thought about reeds on mouthpieces. Some say that you should leave them on because they take a set and others say you should never leave them on for the same reason.  I heard the famous British clarinet player Reginald Kell ( the Barney Bigard of classical!) speaking once and he said once he set his reed on the mouthpiece he  never took it off again until the reed died.  I was assuming  that we would be trying mouthpieces with either a new  synthetic or one that had been stored flat.  Peter

The horn:
My sax is a JK SX90R bought at Howarth of London this summer, perfect set up, 100% no leaks. 

Reeds: 
I tested some different reeds today: V16 3, red java 2.5, green java 3, ZZ 3, Vand.blue 2.5, Alexander Superial NY 2.5 and an old Fibracell medium I found in my reed drawer. Guess what; the mouthpiece plays nice with all the reeds, none of them squeak when I play normal, but the Fibracell is the only reed that don't squeak when I do my "problem combination". 
The sound is a little thinner with the Fibracell, perhaps I just have to get used to it then I could controll it better. The difference between wood and syntetic reeds are less on this mouthpiece than any other I have tested my only Fibracell reed on.

 I would try finishing the cane reeds on a piece of sandpaper on glass.   Of course the possibility of a minor bump on the mouthpiece rails is still valid too.  My favorite Slant Sig Otto Link clarinet mouthpiece always gives a little chirp when I first start playing it and then settles down. I have looked and measured but never found the cause so I just live with it.  Peter

--- On Thu, 1/19/12, EgilF. <egfurre@broadpark.no> wrote:

From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 9:55 AM
















 



  


    
      
      
      The horn:

My sax is a JK SX90R bought at Howarth of London this summer, perfect set up, 100% no leaks. 



Reeds: 

I tested some different reeds today: V16 3, red java 2.5, green java 3, ZZ 3, Vand.blue 2.5, Alexander Superial NY 2.5 and an old Fibracell medium I found in my reed drawer. Guess what; the mouthpiece plays nice with all the reeds, none of them squeak when I play normal, but the Fibracell is the only reed that don't squeak when I do my "problem combination". 

The sound is a little thinner with the Fibracell, perhaps I just have to get used to it then I could controll it better. The difference between wood and syntetic reeds are less on this mouthpiece than any other I have tested my only Fibracell reed on.





    
     

    
    






  

"...Of course the possibility of a minor bump on the mouthpiece rails is still valid too....." I know, - I guess I'm going to have nasty dreams about that bump


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Peter Deley <pfdeley@...> wrote:
>
>  I would try finishing the cane reeds on a piece of sandpaper on glass.   Of course the possibility of a minor bump on the mouthpiece rails is still valid too.  My favorite Slant Sig Otto Link clarinet mouthpiece always gives a little chirp when I first start playing it and then settles down. I have looked and measured but never found the cause so I just live with it.  Peter
> 
> --- On Thu, 1/19/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:
> 
> From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 9:55 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>     
>       
>       
>       The horn:
> 
> My sax is a JK SX90R bought at Howarth of London this summer, perfect set up, 100% no leaks. 
> 
> 
> 
> Reeds: 
> 
> I tested some different reeds today: V16 3, red java 2.5, green java 3, ZZ 3, Vand.blue 2.5, Alexander Superial NY 2.5 and an old Fibracell medium I found in my reed drawer. Guess what; the mouthpiece plays nice with all the reeds, none of them squeak when I play normal, but the Fibracell is the only reed that don't squeak when I do my "problem combination". 
> 
> The sound is a little thinner with the Fibracell, perhaps I just have to get used to it then I could controll it better. The difference between wood and syntetic reeds are less on this mouthpiece than any other I have tested my only Fibracell reed on.
>

on 1/19/12 11:57 AM, Peter Deley at pfdeley@... wrote:

>I heard the famous British
> clarinet player Reginald Kell ( the Barney Bigard of classical!) speaking once
> and he said once he set his reed on the mouthpiece he  never took it off again
> until the reed died.

Must be that the stuff that accumulates on the reed's underside has a
beneficial effect on tone!

I can see a new product already for aspiring single-reed artists, "Reed
Guck".
  
"Just dip before playing for that real pro sound."

B

I sat next to a musician who followed that practice.  After I drew his attention to the maggot crawling out from his alto's reed slit, he cleaned his mouthpiece and reeds religiously.  

--- On Thu, 1/19/12, Barry Levine <barrylevine@...> wrote:

From: Barry Levine <barrylevine@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 9:44 PM








 



  


    
      
      
      on 1/19/12 11:57 AM, Peter Deley at pfdeley@... wrote:



>I heard the famous British

> clarinet player Reginald Kell ( the Barney Bigard of classical!) speaking once

> and he said once he set his reed on the mouthpiece he  never took it off again

> until the reed died.



Must be that the stuff that accumulates on the reed's underside has a

beneficial effect on tone!



I can see a new product already for aspiring single-reed artists, "Reed

Guck".

  

"Just dip before playing for that real pro sound."



B





    
     

    
    






  

David Sanborn do this too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhNcZopC4dM#t=05m48s

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>
> I sat next to a musician who followed that practice.  After I drew his attention to the maggot crawling out from his alto's reed slit, he cleaned his mouthpiece and reeds religiously.  
> 
> --- On Thu, 1/19/12, Barry Levine <barrylevine@...> wrote:
> 
> From: Barry Levine <barrylevine@...>
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 9:44 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>     
>       
>       
>       on 1/19/12 11:57 AM, Peter Deley at pfdeley@... wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >I heard the famous British
> 
> > clarinet player Reginald Kell ( the Barney Bigard of classical!) speaking once
> 
> > and he said once he set his reed on the mouthpiece he  never took it off again
> 
> > until the reed died.
> 
> 
> 
> Must be that the stuff that accumulates on the reed's underside has a
> 
> beneficial effect on tone!
> 
> 
> 
> I can see a new product already for aspiring single-reed artists, "Reed
> 
> Guck".
> 
>   
> 
> "Just dip before playing for that real pro sound."
> 
> 
> 
> B
>

I prefer to have 3 or 4 reeds that are working and to rotate them so they last longer.  Since I take the reed off every day, I can spend a certain amount of time testing and preparing new reeds on that mouthpiece and will always have one ready to replace one of the dying 3 or 4 from rotation when needed.  What does Sanborn do when his reed dies in the middle of a gig?  How long does it take for him to frantically find another working reed?



--- On Thu, 1/19/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:

From: EgilF. <egfurre@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 10:34 PM








 



  


    
      
      
      David Sanborn do this too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhNcZopC4dM#t=05m48s



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

>

> I sat next to a musician who followed that practice.  After I drew his attention to the maggot crawling out from his alto's reed slit, he cleaned his mouthpiece and reeds religiously.  

> 

> --- On Thu, 1/19/12, Barry Levine <barrylevine@...> wrote:

> 

> From: Barry Levine <barrylevine@...>

> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"

> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

> Date: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 9:44 PM

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>  

> 

> 

> 

>   

> 

> 

>     

>       

>       

>       on 1/19/12 11:57 AM, Peter Deley at pfdeley@... wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> >I heard the famous British

> 

> > clarinet player Reginald Kell ( the Barney Bigard of classical!) speaking once

> 

> > and he said once he set his reed on the mouthpiece he  never took it off again

> 

> > until the reed died.

> 

> 

> 

> Must be that the stuff that accumulates on the reed's underside has a

> 

> beneficial effect on tone!

> 

> 

> 

> I can see a new product already for aspiring single-reed artists, "Reed

> 

> Guck".

> 

>   

> 

> "Just dip before playing for that real pro sound."

> 

> 

> 

> B

>





    
     

    
    






  

 Reginald had a good sense of humor. He would have enjoyed that,  but that glorious vibrato he got on his Boosey and Hawkes was to die for.

--- On Thu, 1/19/12, Barry Levine <barrylevine@...> wrote:

From: Barry Levine <barrylevine@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 1:44 PM
















 



  


    
      
      
      on 1/19/12 11:57 AM, Peter Deley at pfdeley@... wrote:



>I heard the famous British

> clarinet player Reginald Kell ( the Barney Bigard of classical!) speaking once

> and he said once he set his reed on the mouthpiece he  never took it off again

> until the reed died.



Must be that the stuff that accumulates on the reed's underside has a

beneficial effect on tone!



I can see a new product already for aspiring single-reed artists, "Reed

Guck".

  

"Just dip before playing for that real pro sound."



B





    
     

    
    






  

 Kell died of old age after an illustrious career as  a symphonic musician in England and a soloist in the USA.  Perhaps the maggots were the secret to his sound. Maybe we should be looking into maggots instead of baffles tip rails.

--- On Thu, 1/19/12, MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: MartinMods <lancelotburt@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 2:00 PM
















 



  


    
      
      
      I sat next to a musician who followed that practice.  After I drew his attention to the maggot crawling out from his alto's reed slit, he cleaned his mouthpiece and reeds religiously.  

--- On Thu, 1/19/12, Barry Levine <barrylevine@...> wrote:

From: Barry Levine <barrylevine@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 9:44 PM








 



    
      
      
      on 1/19/12 11:57 AM, Peter Deley at pfdeley@... wrote:



>I heard the famous British

> clarinet player Reginald Kell ( the Barney Bigard of classical!) speaking once

> and he said once he set his reed on the mouthpiece he  never took it off again

> until the reed died.



Must be that the stuff that accumulates on the reed's underside has a

beneficial effect on tone!



I can see a new product already for aspiring single-reed artists, "Reed

Guck".

  

"Just dip before playing for that real pro sound."



B





    
     








    
     

    
    






  

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

>What does Sanborn do when his reed dies in the middle of a gig?  How long does it take for him to frantically find another working reed?


He pick up another instrument that is ready to go.  He is known for having backups... and backups to his backups.  And backups to those backups.

Paul C.

The last time I talked to David's business manager, he told me David had over 20 140,000 series altos....backups upon backups upon backups....this is very common among players who can afford it.....most of my endorsing artists tour with multiple horns.....I always took two of everything with me on the road, and think anybody who doesn't is a fool.....something always breaks.....it's the nature of touring

Sent from my iPad

STEVE  GOODSON
Saxophone Guru and Visionary
New Orleans
www.nationofmusic.com



On Jan 20, 2012, at 9:14 AM, "tenorman1952" <tenorman1952@...> wrote:

> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
> 
> >What does Sanborn do when his reed dies in the middle of a gig?  How long does it take for him to frantically find another working reed?
> 
> He pick up another instrument that is ready to go. He is known for having backups... and backups to his backups. And backups to those backups.
> 
> Paul C.
> 
> 

Of course.  Touring is not one's normal reality.  I took two of everything to studios in town everyday when not on the road.  The point is, the video was not made with top professionals in mind.  I doubt very much that Paul tells his high school/jr high students to leave their reeds on the mouthpiece for months at a time.  

--- On Fri, 1/20/12, Steve Goodson <saxgourmet@...> wrote:

From: Steve Goodson <saxgourmet@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: "MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com" <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, January 20, 2012, 3:41 PM








 



  


    
      
      
      The last time I talked to David's business manager, he told me David had over 20 140,000 series altos....backups upon backups upon backups....this is very common among players who can afford it.....most of my endorsing artists tour with multiple horns.....I always took two of everything with me on the road, and think anybody who doesn't is a fool.....something always breaks.....it's the nature of touring

Sent from my iPad
STEVE  GOODSONSaxophone Guru and VisionaryNew Orleanswww.nationofmusic.com


On Jan 20, 2012, at 9:14 AM, "tenorman1952" <tenorman1952@...> wrote:






 



    
      
      
      



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:



>What does Sanborn do when his reed dies in the middle of a gig?  How long does it take for him to frantically find another working reed?



He pick up another instrument that is ready to go.  He is known for having backups... and backups to his backups.  And backups to those backups.



Paul C.





    
     

    









    
     

    
    






  

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>
> Of course.  Touring is not one's normal reality.  I took two of everything to studios in town everyday when not on the road.  The point is, the video was not made with top professionals in mind.  I doubt very much that Paul tells his high school/jr high students to leave their reeds on the mouthpiece for months at a time.  
> 

You are correct, I don't.  I tell them to remove the reed after each playing session, carefully wipe it dry, and place it in a reed holder such as the Lavoz Reedguard IV, not in a sealed Rico "Novapack".  Also, to number the reedguard slots 1, 2, 3, 4, and to alternate reeds.  Better, have 2 reedguards, for a total of 8 reeds.  1-4 are the performing reeds, 5-8 are the newer practice reeds being broken in.  As reeds in the 1-4 reedguard go out, they are replaced by ones from the 5-8 reedguard.

But I don't need so many now that I play Fibracells.  ;-)

Paul

 That's all excellent advice to give to students about having goods reeds on hand at all times. But of course we must also learn the art of playing on that reed suddenly gone bad or gotten  suddenly damaged.  I grew up in Montreal. In the summer it is humid and the reeds get "waterlogged" and difficult to play. I'm sure people in the South East are familiar with that.  Then in winter the temperature is below freezing and  buildings are heated so the humidity plummets to Saharan levels. Finding a   reed  that plays and continues to play becomes  a crap shoot. We all had our reeds in  neatly numbered Lavoz reed holders and none played for very long despite preparation, curing time etc. A little glass bottle full of water  to soak them in often worked for a while.   I haven't played there since decent synthetic reeds have come on the market but they must be a blessing. It makes sense that Legere comes from that part of the world. Playing on a
 bad reed is an essential skill needed   to be a reed player. Some players, like Sonny Stitt and Nick Brignola were already  playing on the early synthetic reeds,which were just a slab of plastic in the shape of a reed. They learned to play on a bad reed because they were using them all the time! For me the best thing that ever happened in dealing with reeds was  acquiring Tom Ridenour's reed fixing kit.  Peter

--- On Sat, 1/21/12, tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...> wrote:

From: tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 8:00 AM
















 



  


    
      
      
      



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

>

> Of course.  Touring is not one's normal reality.  I took two of everything to studios in town everyday when not on the road.  The point is, the video was not made with top professionals in mind.  I doubt very much that Paul tells his high school/jr high students to leave their reeds on the mouthpiece for months at a time.  

> 



You are correct, I don't.  I tell them to remove the reed after each playing session, carefully wipe it dry, and place it in a reed holder such as the Lavoz Reedguard IV, not in a sealed Rico "Novapack".  Also, to number the reedguard slots 1, 2, 3, 4, and to alternate reeds.  Better, have 2 reedguards, for a total of 8 reeds.  1-4 are the performing reeds, 5-8 are the newer practice reeds being broken in.  As reeds in the 1-4 reedguard go out, they are replaced by ones from the 5-8 reedguard.



But I don't need so many now that I play Fibracells.  ;-)



Paul





    
     

    
    






  

....back to Egil's Sugal....


Did no notice any change in the pitch "centeredness" of the piece after adjusting it?  Any new audio?

About pitch changes: I has to put the mouthpiece further into the cork to get it in tune. And, - D2 is generally high, - it did no became any lower after the adjustments. 

I have played on a Fibracell the last few days and is very positive surprised how quickly one adapts to a new, brighter reed. Fibracell is the only reed that do not squeak when I do my "problem combination,". I playd with an acoustic trio yesterday, and the horn-mouthpiece-reed worked really well. We will play a concert in a couple of weeks, maybe we do a recording then.



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>
> ....back to Egil's Sugal....
> 
> 
> Did no notice any change in the pitch "centeredness" of the piece after adjusting it?  Any new audio?
>

As I expected.  IME, you have to get rid of all the material after the drop-off for it to have an accurate pitch center.  The half flat baffle/half-roll-over design necessitates pitch compromises.

--- On Sat, 1/21/12, EgilF. <egfurre@...> wrote:

From: EgilF. <egfurre@broadpark.no>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 10:06 PM








 



  


    
      
      
      About pitch changes: I has to put the mouthpiece further into the cork to get it in tune. And, - D2 is generally high, - it did no became any lower after the adjustments. 



I have played on a Fibracell the last few days and is very positive surprised how quickly one adapts to a new, brighter reed. Fibracell is the only reed that do not squeak when I do my "problem combination,". I playd with an acoustic trio yesterday, and the horn-mouthpiece-reed worked really well. We will play a concert in a couple of weeks, maybe we do a recording then.



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

>

> ....back to Egil's Sugal....

> 

> 

> Did no notice any change in the pitch "centeredness" of the piece after adjusting it?  Any new audio?

>





    
     

    
    






  

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@...> wrote:

> 
> I have played on a Fibracell the last few days and is very positive surprised how quickly one adapts to a new, brighter reed. 
> 
> 


If you actually record yourself, I think you will find that the Fibracell is not really any brighter than regular cane reeds.  You are hearing "reed slap" against the tip of the mouthpiece, through your teeth, and bones in the head, directly to the ear.  This effect can also be heard the other way, when players put a rubber patch on the beak of the mouthpiece, and think the tone is darker.  It is, but only to the player's ear.  The player will hear different tones due to material of the mouthpiece, too.  To truly evaluate, record and playback and listen.

Paul C.

That's totally right. I play on Fibracell since 2009 (2 years) and I do not
notice any difference between Fibracell and a good cane reed. I just bought
4 grades (2.5-4) to test which one was the best option and I choose the 3.5
and 4 to play with my mpcs (alto sax).
One of my preferred set up is Claude Lakey hard rubber 6*3 with a fibracell
4.0


2012/1/22 tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...>

> **
>
>
>
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have played on a Fibracell the last few days and is very positive
> surprised how quickly one adapts to a new, brighter reed.
> >
> >
>
> If you actually record yourself, I think you will find that the Fibracell
> is not really any brighter than regular cane reeds. You are hearing "reed
> slap" against the tip of the mouthpiece, through your teeth, and bones in
> the head, directly to the ear. This effect can also be heard the other way,
> when players put a rubber patch on the beak of the mouthpiece, and think
> the tone is darker. It is, but only to the player's ear. The player will
> hear different tones due to material of the mouthpiece, too. To truly
> evaluate, record and playback and listen.
>
> Paul C.
>
>  
>

 I envy you guys who  find the synthetics the same as a cane reed. I always have a working Fibracell in my case.  They have been life savers several times and I have played one up to a month at a time without going back to cane. However when I finally do slap on a good cane reed  it is like slipping into  my most comfortable shoes again.

--- On Sun, 1/22/12, Luis Duran <luisfernandoduran@...> wrote:

From: Luis Duran <luisfernandoduran@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Metal Link "chirp"
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, January 22, 2012, 8:07 AM
















 



  


    
      
      
      That's totally right. I play on Fibracell since 2009 (2 years) and I do not notice any difference between Fibracell and a good cane reed. I just bought 4 grades (2.5-4) to test which one was the best option and I choose the 3.5 and 4 to play with my mpcs (alto sax).

One of my preferred set up is Claude Lakey hard rubber 6*3 with a fibracell 4.0


2012/1/22 tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...>
















 



  


    
      
      
      



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@...> wrote:



> 

> I have played on a Fibracell the last few days and is very positive surprised how quickly one adapts to a new, brighter reed. 

> 

> 



If you actually record yourself, I think you will find that the Fibracell is not really any brighter than regular cane reeds.  You are hearing "reed slap" against the tip of the mouthpiece, through your teeth, and bones in the head, directly to the ear.  This effect can also be heard the other way, when players put a rubber patch on the beak of the mouthpiece, and think the tone is darker.  It is, but only to the player's ear.  The player will hear different tones due to material of the mouthpiece, too.  To truly evaluate, record and playback and listen.




Paul C.