Mouthpiece Work / Guardala Brecker 1
FROM: charvel50 (charvel50)
SUBJECT: Guardala Brecker 1
My Guardala Brecker1 plays wonderfully ,big thick sound , screaming 
harmonics, everything is there when required. I recently checked the 
lay and found it to be quite unbalanced. Guage 24mm was 12.55 left 
and 13.5 right. Guage 32 was 10+ left and 11 Right. Guage 48 was 8 
left and 9 Right. Guage 67 was 5 left and 6 right. Tip opening is 110 
thou maybe a tad smaller. I made sure several times that the piece 
was held on the guage correctly. I have several good mouthpieces to 
compare with including my main Florida Link that was faced by Paul 
Coats. Why does the Guardala play so well with the unbalanced lay? I 
don't know if I  want to tempt fate in having it cleaned up.
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Guardala Brecker 1
This is very unusual.  I have measured several hand finished Guardalas and
they were all perfectly balanced.  Sometimes the curve was a little off,
but they were balanced.  Many of the laser cuts are pretty good too, but
not all.



		
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FROM: bluesnote2000 (dan lunsford)
SUBJECT: Re: Guardala Brecker 1
--- charvel50 <rossmac1@...> wrote:

> 
> My Guardala Brecker1 plays wonderfully ,big thick
> sound , screaming 
> harmonics, everything is there when required. I
> recently checked the 
> lay and found it to be quite unbalanced. Guage 24mm
> was 12.55 left 
> and 13.5 right. Guage 32 was 10+ left and 11 Right.
> Guage 48 was 8 
> left and 9 Right. Guage 67 was 5 left and 6 right.
> Tip opening is 110 
> thou maybe a tad smaller. I made sure several times
> that the piece 
> was held on the guage correctly. I have several good
> mouthpieces to 
> compare with including my main Florida Link that was
> faced by Paul 
> Coats. Why does the Guardala play so well with the
> unbalanced lay? I 
> don't know if I  want to tempt fate in having it
> cleaned up.
> 
> Hi:

For whatever this is worth...  I had spoken to Wolfe
Tanninbaum about refacing, etc. and he told me that he
"doesn't really feel it makes much difference" if the
rails are perfectly even or not".  Also, some of the
very best pieces I have are actually not even, but are
hand picked and they work great.  Also, in Eric
Brand's treatise on mouthpiece work, he says that some
players "prefer a crooked lay".  In short, if it
sounds good, you might want to match  the reed to it,
and go on. I don't think we spend enough time on reeds
anyway.  

By the way, this is TOTALLY unrelated, but does anyone
have a good facing schedule for a Selmer Soloist D
hard rubber Soprano piece.  I have a table stamped D
that really needs a little help.

Thanks,

BK  
> 
> 



		
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FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Selmer D Soprano facing schedule
Dan asked:  " By the way, this is TOTALLY unrelated, but does anyone
have a good facing schedule for a Selmer Soloist D
hard rubber Soprano piece.  I have a table stamped D
that really needs a little help."

Try this:

Feeler      mm's       E.Brand

.0015"      17 mm         34
.010"       11 mm         22
.014"       10 mm         20
.024"        7 mm         14
.031"        4 mm          8
.048"        1 mm          2

Tip Opening .051" (1.30mm)  130 (E.Brand wand)


This is the D tip opening with a good facing length.  Selmers vary too 
much to know what they intend for a facing length.

Paul

>
>
> By the way, this is TOTALLY unrelated, but does anyone
> have a good facing schedule for a Selmer Soloist D
> hard rubber Soprano piece.  I have a table stamped D
> that really needs a little help.
>
> Thanks,
>
> BK 
> >
> >
>
>
>
>            
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FROM: kymarto (Toby)
SUBJECT: Re: Guardala Brecker 1
Funny, I have always felt that even rails are a sine qua non for good response and good behavior, but I suppose it is possible that if the rails are consistently uneven in a certain way the mpc might do alright. My basic advice is that if it works for you and you aren't unhappy best to leave it alone. Of course you don't know if and how much better it would be with even dimensions...

Toby
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: dan lunsford 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 10:45 AM
  Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Guardala Brecker 1



  --- charvel50 <rossmac1@...> wrote:

  > 
  > My Guardala Brecker1 plays wonderfully ,big thick
  > sound , screaming 
  > harmonics, everything is there when required. I
  > recently checked the 
  > lay and found it to be quite unbalanced. Guage 24mm
  > was 12.55 left 
  > and 13.5 right. Guage 32 was 10+ left and 11 Right.
  > Guage 48 was 8 
  > left and 9 Right. Guage 67 was 5 left and 6 right.
  > Tip opening is 110 
  > thou maybe a tad smaller. I made sure several times
  > that the piece 
  > was held on the guage correctly. I have several good
  > mouthpieces to 
  > compare with including my main Florida Link that was
  > faced by Paul 
  > Coats. Why does the Guardala play so well with the
  > unbalanced lay? I 
  > don't know if I  want to tempt fate in having it
  > cleaned up.
  > 
  > Hi:

  For whatever this is worth...  I had spoken to Wolfe
  Tanninbaum about refacing, etc. and he told me that he
  "doesn't really feel it makes much difference" if the
  rails are perfectly even or not".  Also, some of the
  very best pieces I have are actually not even, but are
  hand picked and they work great.  Also, in Eric
  Brand's treatise on mouthpiece work, he says that some
  players "prefer a crooked lay".  In short, if it
  sounds good, you might want to match  the reed to it,
  and go on. I don't think we spend enough time on reeds
  anyway.  

  By the way, this is TOTALLY unrelated, but does anyone
  have a good facing schedule for a Selmer Soloist D
  hard rubber Soprano piece.  I have a table stamped D
  that really needs a little help.

  Thanks,

  BK  
  > 
  > 



              
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FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Selmer D Soprano facing schedule
See also the 

Sop Facing Curves Selmer.xls 

in the Files section.
FROM: ed_svoboda (Ed Svoboda)
SUBJECT: Early Phil Barone Soprano Piece
I picked up yesterday what I think is a very early Phil Barone soprano
piece.  It's hand engraved with P Barone and the blank is from France.  It
appears that it at one time had a baffle in it that someone removed.  Anyone
ever see one these before?

It plays on the bright side and unfortunately one of the rails has a pretty
good nick in it which I'm going to repair.  The facing on it is pretty
decent but one rail is a little longer than the other.  I suspect it was
really a screamer with the baffle.

I'm going to send Phil and e-mail and see what he can tell me about it.



Ed
FROM: mojomouthpiecework (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Cooked Lays
Most mass producers of mouthpieces will rationalize that defects, 
like uneven rails, do not make much difference.  In the grand scheme 
of things, they are right.

Most consumers of mouthpieces value low price over quality, so long 
as the basic function is met.  A slightly softer reed usually 
compensates for facing defects good enough.  Just consider what kind 
of mouthpieces are in use.  Not just students, but advanced players 
too.

But when you consider the importance of the mouthpiece to sound 
production, and the joy of the playing experiance, it is worth 
investing more $ in it than we do for say the sax.  Too many players 
buy new saxes when they should be fixing the leaks in their current 
sax, upgrading their mouthpiece, and practicing.

Crooked rails will play best with a crooked cut or adjusted reed.  If 
you get a reed that is crroked the opposite of the mouthpiece, it 
will seem realy bad.  If the mouthpiece is symmetric, it will be more 
tolerant of reed variation.

Some players like crooked rails because of the added resistance.  I'd 
counter that there are better ways to add playing resistance via the 
facing curve.
FROM: bluesnote2000 (dan lunsford)
SUBJECT: Re: Selmer D Soprano facing schedule
--- Paul Coats <tenorman@...> wrote:

> Dan asked:  " By the way, this is TOTALLY unrelated,
> but does anyone
> have a good facing schedule for a Selmer Soloist D
> hard rubber Soprano piece.  I have a table stamped D
> that really needs a little help."
> 
> Try this:
> 
> Feeler      mm's       E.Brand
> 
> .0015"      17 mm         34
> .010"       11 mm         22
> .014"       10 mm         20
> .024"        7 mm         14
> .031"        4 mm          8
> .048"        1 mm          2
> 
> Tip Opening .051" (1.30mm)  130 (E.Brand wand)
> 
> 
> This is the D tip opening with a good facing length.
>  Selmers vary too 
> much to know what they intend for a facing length.
> 
> Paul
> 
> >
> >
> > By the way, this is TOTALLY unrelated, but does
> anyone
> > have a good facing schedule for a Selmer Soloist D
> > hard rubber Soprano piece.  I have a table stamped
> D
> > that really needs a little help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > BK 
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >            
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> >Hi:

Thanks.  A question, though.  What would the number be
on the  facing schedule with a 34, (rather than 31)
gauge?

Bob
> 



	
		
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FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: Selmer D Soprano facing schedule
I think I worked this out before (Keith, correct me if I'm wrong) but 
.034" feelers are generally about 1 mm less than .031" feelers.

I note that Keith's XL sheet has the Selmer soprano D facing at 20 mm 
(with .0015" feeler), but I have measured them in the 15 mm - 16 mm 
range on some, and actually, all over the place.  20 mm is a little long 
for a soprano facing.

Paul

dan lunsford wrote:

>
> --- Paul Coats <tenorman@...> wrote:
>
> > Dan asked:  " By the way, this is TOTALLY unrelated,
> > but does anyone
> > have a good facing schedule for a Selmer Soloist D
> > hard rubber Soprano piece.  I have a table stamped D
> > that really needs a little help."
> >
> > Try this:
> >
> > Feeler      mm's       E.Brand
> >
> > .0015"      17 mm         34
> > .010"       11 mm         22
> > .014"       10 mm         20
> > .024"        7 mm         14
> > .031"        4 mm          8
> > .048"        1 mm          2
> >
> > Tip Opening .051" (1.30mm)  130 (E.Brand wand)
> >
> >
> > This is the D tip opening with a good facing length.
> >  Selmers vary too
> > much to know what they intend for a facing length.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > By the way, this is TOTALLY unrelated, but does
> > anyone
> > > have a good facing schedule for a Selmer Soloist D
> > > hard rubber Soprano piece.  I have a table stamped
> > D
> > > that really needs a little help.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > BK
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >           
> > > _______________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
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> > MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
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> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG9deac0v/M15388.5500238.6578046.3001176/D=grplch/S05032198:HM/EXP98063919/A#72354/R=0/SIGid813k2/*https://www.orchardbank.com/hcs/hcsapplication?pf=PLApply&media=EMYHNL40F21004SS>>
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> > >Hi:
>
> Thanks.  A question, though.  What would the number be
> on the  facing schedule with a 34, (rather than 31)
> gauge?
>
> Bob
> >
>
>
>
>      
>            
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FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Selmer D Soprano facing schedule
My facing offering was not based on any measurements.  I went off of a
Selmer chart that has a facing lenth of 20mm.  However, it was not defined
as to what this length represents.  It seems like Selmer and Vandoren list
facing lengths that are longer than what we obtain with a .0015" feeler. 
They could be using a full facing length as given to the machine shop. 
This would be a facing length for a non-existant .000" feeler.

Still, I like longer facing lengths on sop sax, especially with Fibracell
reeds.

The diff between .031" and .034" on a sop sax curve should be about 1.5
glass gage numbers or .75 mm.



		
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FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: Selmer D Soprano facing schedule
" The diff between .031" and .034" on a sop sax curve should be about 1.5
glass gage numbers or .75 mm."

Thanks, Keith!

Keith Bradbury wrote:

> My facing offering was not based on any measurements.  I went off of a
> Selmer chart that has a facing lenth of 20mm.  However, it was not defined
> as to what this length represents.  It seems like Selmer and Vandoren list
> facing lengths that are longer than what we obtain with a .0015" feeler.
> They could be using a full facing length as given to the machine shop.
> This would be a facing length for a non-existant .000" feeler.
>
> Still, I like longer facing lengths on sop sax, especially with Fibracell
> reeds.
>
> The diff between .031" and .034" on a sop sax curve should be about 1.5
> glass gage numbers or .75 mm.
>
>
>
>            
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FROM: jgoeckermann (Jim Goeckermann)
SUBJECT: Keith's tell-it-like-it-is
"Too many players buy new saxes when they should be fixing the leaks in 
their current
sax, upgrading their mouthpiece, and practicing."
OUCH! That hurt! And if it weren't absolutely true, I would probably 
feel far less convicted. In the meantime, I think that I will go talk to 
my new sax about what kind of mouthpiece would work best......to 
practice on, don'cha know! JimG

Keith Bradbury wrote:

>
> Most mass producers of mouthpieces will rationalize that defects,
> like uneven rails, do not make much difference.  In the grand scheme
> of things, they are right.
>
> Most consumers of mouthpieces value low price over quality, so long
> as the basic function is met.  A slightly softer reed usually
> compensates for facing defects good enough.  Just consider what kind
> of mouthpieces are in use.  Not just students, but advanced players
> too.
>
> But when you consider the importance of the mouthpiece to sound
> production, and the joy of the playing experiance, it is worth
> investing more $ in it than we do for say the sax.  Too many players
> buy new saxes when they should be fixing the leaks in their current
> sax, upgrading their mouthpiece, and practicing.
>
> Crooked rails will play best with a crooked cut or adjusted reed.  If
> you get a reed that is crroked the opposite of the mouthpiece, it
> will seem realy bad.  If the mouthpiece is symmetric, it will be more
> tolerant of reed variation.
>
> Some players like crooked rails because of the added resistance.  I'd
> counter that there are better ways to add playing resistance via the
> facing curve.
>
>
>
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
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FROM: bluesnote2000 (dan lunsford)
SUBJECT: Re: Keith's tell-it-like-it-is
--- Jim Goeckermann <jim@...> wrote:

> "Too many players buy new saxes when they should be
> fixing the leaks in 
> their current
> sax, upgrading their mouthpiece, and practicing."
> OUCH! That hurt! And if it weren't absolutely true,
> I would probably 
> feel far less convicted. In the meantime, I think
> that I will go talk to 
> my new sax about what kind of mouthpiece would work
> best......to 
> practice on, don'cha know! JimG
> 
> Keith Bradbury wrote:
> 
> >
> > Most mass producers of mouthpieces will
> rationalize that defects,
> > like uneven rails, do not make much difference. 
> In the grand scheme
> > of things, they are right.
> >
> > Most consumers of mouthpieces value low price over
> quality, so long
> > as the basic function is met.  A slightly softer
> reed usually
> > compensates for facing defects good enough.  Just
> consider what kind
> > of mouthpieces are in use.  Not just students, but
> advanced players
> > too.
> >
> > But when you consider the importance of the
> mouthpiece to sound
> > production, and the joy of the playing experiance,
> it is worth
> > investing more $ in it than we do for say the sax.
>  Too many players
> > buy new saxes when they should be fixing the leaks
> in their current
> > sax, upgrading their mouthpiece, and practicing.
> >
> > Crooked rails will play best with a crooked cut or
> adjusted reed.  If
> > you get a reed that is crroked the opposite of the
> mouthpiece, it
> > will seem realy bad.  If the mouthpiece is
> symmetric, it will be more
> > tolerant of reed variation.
> >
> > Some players like crooked rails because of the
> added resistance.  I'd
> > counter that there are better ways to add playing
> resistance via the
> > facing curve.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Visit the site at
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> Hi:

Yeah, it is true. But... on the subject of Guardala
pieces.  I heard that Mike Brecker's is kind of
unusual.  In essence, one that works for him but is
kind of a freak.  I have met Brecker a couple of
times, but didn't have the inclination to really ask
him, but if anybody knows him enough to have measured
his mouthpiece, I would like to know what its like.

Bu the way, if anyone is in the Knoxville tennessee
area on Nov. 2, I am doing a show with drummer Carl
Allen, featuring Donald  Brown on piano, at the 4620
Jazz club.

Later,

Bob    



		
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FROM: charvel50 (charvel50)
SUBJECT: Guardala Brecker 1
Would someone have measurements of a Guardala Brecker 1 Tenor 
mouthpiece.  Mine is 108 thou tip and the lay is 26 MM  long.  It is 
quite unbalanced the further it gets to the tip and does not play as 
well as it used to. It has not been damaged but seems to be twisted. 
Are the handmade Guardalas always made with longer lays?
Thanks