Mouthpiece Work / Nodes
FROM: springermpc (Springer Mouthpieces)
SUBJECT: Nodes
Hi guys,
This subject has been on my mind the last several days...
Wave nodes like where they connect the xylophone bar...
I am trying to figure out if the entire reed is the vibrating entity 
on a saxophone then it would stand to reason to make the "break" at 
either the anit-node or the node of the 1st partial. (The fundamental 
is of course the entire length of the reed)
By my play testing, the best placement for alto is about 19.5cm for 
say a .070". I measured some reeds and average length turned out 
about 69.95cm. So...
First node : 34.975cm
second: 17.48cm (anti - 8.74 or 26.22)
third: 11.655cm or 23.31cm (anti - 7.77cm or 19.425cm ->>WOW!!!) 

Is this just coincidence or is it solid evidence?
I am off to calc tenors now...
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Nodes
Interesting thing to play around with.  Try clipping 1/4" or so off the
heel of your alto reed to see if it makes a difference to you.  Bob
Ackerman likes to do this to his personal reeds.



		
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FROM: springermpc (Springer Mouthpieces)
SUBJECT: Re: Nodes
ADDENDUM: please forgive not "cm" but "mm"

Well Tenor did not fair so well... I find 24-25mm works well in my 
play tests, but fundamental and first 2 partials don't match up...

I would imagine they select the length of the reed based upon math, 
but then again maybe it is just conjecture...?

it does have me intrigued.
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: Nodes
All antinodes in the mouthpiece, and on the other end, at the open tone 
hole.  Nodes in between.  This is opposite from a vibrating string, 
where the nodes are at each end and along the string, with antinode 
where the string is bowed or plucked.
 
Paul

Springer Mouthpieces wrote:

>
> Hi guys,
> This subject has been on my mind the last several days...
> Wave nodes like where they connect the xylophone bar...
> I am trying to figure out if the entire reed is the vibrating entity
> on a saxophone then it would stand to reason to make the "break" at
> either the anit-node or the node of the 1st partial. (The fundamental
> is of course the entire length of the reed)
> By my play testing, the best placement for alto is about 19.5cm for
> say a .070". I measured some reeds and average length turned out
> about 69.95cm. So...
> First node : 34.975cm
> second: 17.48cm (anti - 8.74 or 26.22)
> third: 11.655cm or 23.31cm (anti - 7.77cm or 19.425cm ->>WOW!!!)
>
> Is this just coincidence or is it solid evidence?
> I am off to calc tenors now...
>
>
>
>
>
>
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FROM: kymarto (Toby)
SUBJECT: Re: Nodes
I think it is just an interesting fantasy. Nodes and antinodes occur at integer fractions of the length of the air column. As Paul says the reed is a displacement antinode, meaning you have zero pressure differential and maximum air movement at the reed and at the end of the air column.

In any case if you look at the length of the reed as opposed to the length of the entire air column you will clearly see that it is a tiny fraction, and therefore any nodes or antinodes at the reed end would be up around the 10th partial at least for the lowest tone of the instrument, which doesn't exist in any real strength in the tonal spectrum. Besides that the position of nodes and antinodes changes with each different note.

Toby
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Springer Mouthpieces 
  To: MouthpieceWork@...m 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 4:16 AM
  Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Nodes



  ADDENDUM: please forgive not "cm" but "mm"

  Well Tenor did not fair so well... I find 24-25mm works well in my 
  play tests, but fundamental and first 2 partials don't match up...

  I would imagine they select the length of the reed based upon math, 
  but then again maybe it is just conjecture...?

  it does have me intrigued.





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FROM: zadignabla (ZADIGNABLA)
SUBJECT: Re: Nodes
Clarinet do not respect this node pattern just because
it is an open pipe, like sax, but it beaves as a
closed pipe bacuse it has a cylindrical bore. It is
like a vibrating rod fixed in one side but free at the
other end.
So at the tip aperture you should have an antinode
(Young low) but still in mouthpiece near its resonant
chamber it will be a node and the effective lenght of
the instrument should be measured just starting from
this node.
For this reason the clarinet can emit tone with
wavelenght 4 time longher than its phisical lenght and
in the chalumau register it has only odd armonics.

 Manfredo Cavallini
www.clarinet.it


 --- Paul Coats <tenorman@...> ha scritto: 
> All antinodes in the mouthpiece, and on the other
> end, at the open tone 
> hole.  Nodes in between.  This is opposite from a
> vibrating string, 
> where the nodes are at each end and along the
> string, with antinode 
> where the string is bowed or plucked.
>  
> Paul
> 
> Springer Mouthpieces wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi guys,
> > This subject has been on my mind the last several
> days...
> > Wave nodes like where they connect the xylophone
> bar...
> > I am trying to figure out if the entire reed is
> the vibrating entity
> > on a saxophone then it would stand to reason to
> make the "break" at
> > either the anit-node or the node of the 1st
> partial. (The fundamental
> > is of course the entire length of the reed)
> > By my play testing, the best placement for alto is
> about 19.5cm for
> > say a .070". I measured some reeds and average
> length turned out
> > about 69.95cm. So...
> > First node : 34.975cm
> > second: 17.48cm (anti - 8.74 or 26.22)
> > third: 11.655cm or 23.31cm (anti - 7.77cm or
> 19.425cm ->>WOW!!!)
> >
> > Is this just coincidence or is it solid evidence?
> > I am off to calc tenors now...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Visit the site at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 
> > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to
> Mouthpiece Work.
> >
> > To see and modify your groups, go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
>
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129b687js/M=315388.5455589.6541277.2248467/D=grplch/S=1705032198:HM/EXP=1097595834/A=2372354/R=0/SIG=12id813k2/*https://www.orchardbank.com/hcs/hcsapplication?pf=PLApply&media=EMYHNL40F21004SS>
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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