Mouthpiece Work / Dukoff reasoning?
FROM: spr1ng64 (Patrick)
SUBJECT: Dukoff reasoning?
Most of the makes of tenor mouthpieces I have measured fall in the range of 24-24.5mm at the break. Both "D" and "H" models of Dukoff use a much shorter 21mm facing length. I just need someone to explain the design reasoning behind this. I mean it seems to work and work well as I think they are great when set-up properly, but sure has me scratchin my head... Patrick
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: Dukoff reasoning?
Short facings are supposed to favor the high register, long facings favor the low. My experience is that short facings do not play the high end better, but suffer in the low end. Actual measurment of Boots Randolph's old Brilhart Satintone tenor 7* (the one he used to record Yakety Sax, Rock Around the Christmas Tree with Brenda Lee, etc) measured a very short 19 mm long facing with .095" tip opening. However it played well in the low end. I usually make tenor facings in the 23-24 range. Most of the Runyon tenors are 22mm, with the Jaguar tenors measuring 23 mm length. I know Mr. Runyon really agonized over the Jaguar alto, trying to decide between 21 and 22 mm facing length. I was at his studio one day, he was testing the two, had me play both, and another player. Paul Patrick wrote: > Most of the makes of tenor mouthpieces I have measured fall in the > range of 24-24.5mm at the break. Both "D" and "H" models of Dukoff use > a much shorter 21mm facing length. I just need someone to explain the > design reasoning behind this. I mean it seems to work and work well as > I think they are great when set-up properly, but sure has me scratchin > my head... > Patrick > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG965o2m6/M'3541.4247512.5496808.2248467/D=grplch/S05032198:HM/EXP93996297/A 61551/R=0/SIGsr5b9n1/*http://launch.yahoo.com/artist/videos.asp?artistID01301> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > >
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Dukoff reasoning?
Here is a sampling of modern tenor Dukoff facing lengths I have measured: D9 48 D7 46/45 (UNEVEN) D7 44 P8 42 M8* 50/49 D8* 46 (CLEAR PLASTIC) LD7 46/47.5 D8 44/43.5 D9 44 D5 43/44 D9* 47/46 D8 50 D7 46 M8 47.5/47 D7 70 (CONVEX TABLE) D6* 52/49.5 M8 45/46 D8 50/49.5 D8 54/52 D7 64 Do you get the pattern? _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
FROM: saxisalive (Luke Puskaric)
SUBJECT: Re: Dukoff reasoning?
Geez, no wonder so many modern Dukoffs play like doorstops.
Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:Here is a sampling of modern tenor Dukoff facing lengths I have measured:
D9 48
D7 46/45 (UNEVEN)
D7 44
P8 42
M8* 50/49
D8* 46 (CLEAR PLASTIC)
LD7 46/47.5
D8 44/43.5
D9 44
D5 43/44
D9* 47/46
D8 50
D7 46
M8 47.5/47
D7 70 (CONVEX TABLE)
D6* 52/49.5
M8 45/46
D8 50/49.5
D8 54/52
D7 64
Do you get the pattern?
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FROM: ed_svoboda (Ed Svoboda)
SUBJECT: Re: Dukoff reasoning?
I agree with Paul about the supposed benefits. If you think 21 is short you should see the ARB Great Neck Original 4* I have on hand I think it's 34 on the glass gauge. For a tenor piece! It must play G4 like a champ!!!! :-) I think 48 is good up to about .100 and then I might consider going to 50 up to .125. Ed -----Original Message----- From: Patrick [mailto:spr1ng64@...] Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 6:50 PM To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Dukoff reasoning? Most of the makes of tenor mouthpieces I have measured fall in the range of 24-24.5mm at the break. Both "D" and "H" models of Dukoff use a much shorter 21mm facing length. I just need someone to explain the design reasoning behind this. I mean it seems to work and work well as I think they are great when set-up properly, but sure has me scratchin my head... Patrick Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups Yahoo! Groups Links
FROM: spr1ng64 (Patrick)
SUBJECT: Re: Dukoff reasoning?
Man Keith - you crack me up... --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@y...> wrote: > Do you get the pattern?
FROM: mikeruhl (Mike Ruhl)
SUBJECT: Re: Dukoff reasoning?
And then there's the Vandoren V16. The "long" facing measure used on the T77 and T95 models is something like 30mm. In the images library, I posted a scan of the brochure that came with a T95. It plays great with #4 V16 reeds. >From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...> >Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com >To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Dukoff reasoning? >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:15:36 -0500 > >Short facings are supposed to favor the high register, long facings favor >the low. > >My experience is that short facings do not play the high end better, but >suffer in the low end. > >Actual measurment of Boots Randolph's old Brilhart Satintone tenor 7* (the >one he used to record Yakety Sax, Rock Around the Christmas Tree with >Brenda Lee, etc) measured a very short 19 mm long facing with .095" tip >opening. However it played well in the low end. > >I usually make tenor facings in the 23-24 range. Most of the Runyon tenors >are 22mm, with the Jaguar tenors measuring 23 mm length. > >I know Mr. Runyon really agonized over the Jaguar alto, trying to decide >between 21 and 22 mm facing length. I was at his studio one day, he was >testing the two, had me play both, and another player. > >Paul > >Patrick wrote: > >>Most of the makes of tenor mouthpieces I have measured fall in the >>range of 24-24.5mm at the break. Both "D" and "H" models of Dukoff use >>a much shorter 21mm facing length. I just need someone to explain the >>design reasoning behind this. I mean it seems to work and work well as >>I think they are great when set-up properly, but sure has me scratchin >>my head... >>Patrick >> >> >> >>Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com >> >>Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the >>Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. >> >>To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >>ADVERTISEMENT >><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12965o2m6/M=273541.4247512.5496808.2248467/D=grplch/S=1705032198:HM/EXP=1093996297/A=2061551/R=0/SIG=11sr5b9n1/*http://launch.yahoo.com/artist/videos.asp?artistID=1001301> >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> * To visit your group on the web, go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/ >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >><mailto:MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. >> >> _________________________________________________________________ Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
FROM: mikeruhl (Mike Ruhl)
SUBJECT: Re: Dukoff reasoning?
And now, according to his website, Boots plays a Dukoff D9. Go figure. >From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...> > >Actual measurment of Boots Randolph's old Brilhart Satintone tenor 7* (the >one he used to record Yakety Sax, Rock Around the Christmas Tree with >Brenda Lee, etc) measured a very short 19 mm long facing with .095" tip >opening. However it played well in the low end. _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee� Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: Dukoff reasoning?
Yes, he has been playing the Dukoff for a number of years. I asked him about the fagility of the Dukoff silverite mouthpieces, he said, no problem, they ship him half a dozen at a time. Paul Mike Ruhl wrote: >And now, according to his website, Boots plays a Dukoff D9. Go figure. > > > >>From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...> >> >>Actual measurment of Boots Randolph's old Brilhart Satintone tenor 7* (the >>one he used to record Yakety Sax, Rock Around the Christmas Tree with >>Brenda Lee, etc) measured a very short 19 mm long facing with .095" tip >>opening. However it played well in the low end. >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee� >Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > > >Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > >Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > >To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >
FROM: jdtoddjazz (jdtoddjazz)
SUBJECT: Re: Dukoff reasoning?
Just doing some research in the archives, and I have a question. The short facing cited for the V16 tenor piece: is that one and the same as the famous so-called short "French" style facing that Berg Larsen also offers (SMS facing?). Another question: I have a Dukoff Super Power Chamber that isn't as soft as Silverite, doesn't appear to be silver itself, and can't be nickel-plated brass, because it's silver in color all the way through. What is it? (Sounds like a game show question.) Thanks for sharing your collective expertise, JT --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Ruhl" <meruhl@...> wrote: > > And then there's the Vandoren V16. The "long" facing measure used on the > T77 and T95 models is something like 30mm. In the images library, I posted > a scan of the brochure that came with a T95. It plays great with #4 V16 > reeds. > > > >From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...> > >Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > >To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Dukoff reasoning? > >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:15:36 -0500 > > > >Short facings are supposed to favor the high register, long facings favor > >the low. > > > >My experience is that short facings do not play the high end better, but > >suffer in the low end. > > > >Actual measurment of Boots Randolph's old Brilhart Satintone tenor 7* (the > >one he used to record Yakety Sax, Rock Around the Christmas Tree with > >Brenda Lee, etc) measured a very short 19 mm long facing with .095" tip > >opening. However it played well in the low end. > > > >I usually make tenor facings in the 23-24 range. Most of the Runyon tenors > >are 22mm, with the Jaguar tenors measuring 23 mm length. > > > >I know Mr. Runyon really agonized over the Jaguar alto, trying to decide > >between 21 and 22 mm facing length. I was at his studio one day, he was > >testing the two, had me play both, and another player. > > > >Paul > > > >Patrick wrote: > > > >>Most of the makes of tenor mouthpieces I have measured fall in the > >>range of 24-24.5mm at the break. Both "D" and "H" models of Dukoff use > >>a much shorter 21mm facing length. I just need someone to explain the > >>design reasoning behind this. I mean it seems to work and work well as > >>I think they are great when set-up properly, but sure has me scratchin > >>my head... > >>Patrick > >> > >> > >> > >>Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > >> > >>Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the > >>Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > >> > >>To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > >> > >> > >>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > >>ADVERTISEMENT > >><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG965o2m6/M'3541.4247512.5496808.224 8467/D=grplch/S05032198:HM/EXP93996297/A 61551/R=0/SIGsr5b 9n1/*http://launch.yahoo.com/artist/videos.asp?artistID01301> > >> > >> > >> > >>----------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > >>Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> * To visit your group on the web, go to: > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/ > >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >> MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > >><mailto:MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com? subject=Unsubscribe> > >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > >> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > >> > >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ >
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Dukoff reasoning?
--- jdtoddjazz <jdtoddjazz@...> wrote:
> Just doing some research in the archives, and I have a question. The
> short facing cited for the V16 tenor piece: is that one and the same
> as the famous so-called short "French" style facing that Berg Larsen
> also offers (SMS facing?).
I have only seen consistently short facings on Beechlers and older Selmers.
Berg facing lengths seem to be random in spite of the "SMS" or "M"
markings.
>
> Another question: I have a Dukoff Super Power Chamber that isn't as
> soft as Silverite, doesn't appear to be silver itself, and can't be
> nickel-plated brass, because it's silver in color all the way
> through. What is it? (Sounds like a game show question.)
The newer ones (last few years) mostly are Nickel-plated over Silverite.
The table, facing and interior are not plated.
>
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FROM: jazzmanted (Ted Kutzer)
SUBJECT: Re: Dukoff reasoning?
I believe that dukoff model to be aluminum or at least that is what jl smith said mine was
Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
--- jdtoddjazz <jdtoddjazz@...> wrote:
> Just doing some research in the archives, and I have a question. The
> short facing cited for the V16 tenor piece: is that one and the same
> as the famous so-called short "French" style facing that Berg Larsen
> also offers (SMS facing?).
I have only seen consistently short facings on Beechlers and older Selmers.
Berg facing lengths seem to be random in spite of the "SMS" or "M"
markings.
>
> Another question: I have a Dukoff Super Power Chamber that isn't as
> soft as Silverite, doesn't appear to be silver itself, and can't be
> nickel-plated brass, because it's silver in color all the way
> through. What is it? (Sounds like a game show question.)
The newer ones (last few years) mostly are Nickel-plated over Silverite.
The table, facing and interior are not plated.
>
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FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Dukoff reasoning?
There are a lot of odd variations, but I have never seen an Aluminum
Dukoff. If it was made Al, it would feel light in the hand. I have 0wned
an Aluminum RIA.
The Ni-plated Dukoffs are fairly easy to spot. They look better than their
Silverite versions. The exterior is un-pitted and holds up better over
time. Even the unplated inside looks better than some of the older ones.
You can usually see the plating edge where it meets the table. In fact,
some is usually hanging past the edge on new ones.
--- Ted Kutzer <jazzmanted@...> wrote:
> I believe that dukoff model to be aluminum or at least that is what jl
> smith said mine was
>
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