I've been reading this group for a few months.  I just picked up a 
Babbitt glass gauge, a set of feelers (Pep Boys, 33 feelers, $5), a set 
of Jeff Rosner feelers, and a dial caliper and started measuring a few 
old mouthpieces.  I've also read through all of the old messages I could 
find about using the spreadsheet and it seems to (mostly) make sense.  
Here's what I think I've figured out - help me out if I'm off track 
here.  For a (1980s) Selmer D tenor piece I get:

.0015  40
.005    33
.010    28
.016    24
.024    20
.035    14
.050      8
.063      4

tip opening measures .074

In the spreadsheet, I set the measurement at the tip opening to 1.5 
since it appears that the calipers would measure to the inside of the 
tip rail and not the edge of the tip.  With only the tip and .0015 
columns being calculated, the spreadsheet should show me a radial curve 
for the existing tip opening.  With R=5.32 and MF.4, it all seems to 
match up.  The calculated "L" values are all higher than the measured 
values.  It seems that if I wanted to work this facing into a radial 
curve, this would be a good situation to be in, since it would mean that 
at all of the measured points on the curve, material would need to be 
*removed* to fit the suggested curve. Any ideas/comments appreciated.  
Thanks.

Dan Torosian

First Dan, let me compliment you on your post.  It is well composed and has
all the info one needs in it for a reply.  It is also a nice documentary of
how one gets started.  Please post some follow ups!

I ran your numbers here and I agree with your analysis so far.  If you can
execute your plan (now the craftmanship comes in), you will have a more
responsive playing mouthpiece.

You did not mention if the table is flat.  If you need to flatten it, the
.0015/40 number will change some.  If you need to take a lot off the table,
all the numbers will change but they should move away from your target
curve.  This is what you need to do to gain material in th facing curve.

The .0015/40 is short for a tenor facing length.  For practice, I would
recommend you try to keep it there by marking a pencil line on the side of
the MP at that point so you can avoid swiping it at all on the sandpaper. 
One erroneous swipe is all it will take to mess it up.  Then you will need
to cut the table more or decide to go longer with the facing.

Next, you may want to consider a longer facing curve.  Nearly all tenor MPs
have facing lengths in the 42-52 range with most being in the 44-48 range. 
I think a 44 would be good to try with a .080 tip opening.

Good luck!


		
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Keith,

Thanks a lot.  I think I'm going to do a lot more measuring and absorb 
some more information from you folks before I break out the sandpaper.  
I don't ever use this Selmer D piece (I use an 80s rubber Link 7 that 
JvW refaced, starting my interest in refacing...), so it might be a good 
one to modify some day.  I'll keep the specs below on file.

Dan

Keith Bradbury wrote:

>First Dan, let me compliment you on your post.  It is well composed and has
>all the info one needs in it for a reply.  It is also a nice documentary of
>how one gets started.  Please post some follow ups!
>
>I ran your numbers here and I agree with your analysis so far.  If you can
>execute your plan (now the craftmanship comes in), you will have a more
>responsive playing mouthpiece.
>
>You did not mention if the table is flat.  If you need to flatten it, the
>.0015/40 number will change some.  If you need to take a lot off the table,
>all the numbers will change but they should move away from your target
>curve.  This is what you need to do to gain material in th facing curve.
>
>The .0015/40 is short for a tenor facing length.  For practice, I would
>recommend you try to keep it there by marking a pencil line on the side of
>the MP at that point so you can avoid swiping it at all on the sandpaper. 
>One erroneous swipe is all it will take to mess it up.  Then you will need
>to cut the table more or decide to go longer with the facing.
>
>Next, you may want to consider a longer facing curve.  Nearly all tenor MPs
>have facing lengths in the 42-52 range with most being in the 44-48 range. 
>I think a 44 would be good to try with a .080 tip opening.
>
>Good luck!
>
>
>		
>__________________________________
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Those figure are approximately correct for a ALTO Sax Selmer D.  The 
alto D is .074" tip, and tenor D is .078".  The 40 measurement (20mm) 
with the .0015" feeler is more appropriate for an alto sax.

 

I saw Keith's post, and I agree, for classical tenor, a 22-24 mm (44-48 
reading) with the .0015" would be far better.  And his suggestion for 
tip opening is very close to what a D should be.  In fact, I would not 
hesitate to open it up to .082" (Selmer E facing) with 23mm length (46 
on the Babbit glass with .0015" feeler).

 

Paul Coats

Dan Torosian wrote:

> I've been reading this group for a few months.  I just picked up a
> Babbitt glass gauge, a set of feelers (Pep Boys, 33 feelers, $5), a set
> of Jeff Rosner feelers, and a dial caliper and started measuring a few
> old mouthpieces.  I've also read through all of the old messages I could
> find about using the spreadsheet and it seems to (mostly) make sense. 
> Here's what I think I've figured out - help me out if I'm off track
> here.  For a (1980s) Selmer D tenor piece I get:
>
> .0015  40
> .005    33
> .010    28
> .016    24
> .024    20
> .035    14
> .050      8
> .063      4
>
> tip opening measures .074
>
> In the spreadsheet, I set the measurement at the tip opening to 1.5
> since it appears that the calipers would measure to the inside of the
> tip rail and not the edge of the tip.  With only the tip and .0015
> columns being calculated, the spreadsheet should show me a radial curve
> for the existing tip opening.  With R=5.32 and MF.4, it all seems to
> match up.  The calculated "L" values are all higher than the measured
> values.  It seems that if I wanted to work this facing into a radial
> curve, this would be a good situation to be in, since it would mean that
> at all of the measured points on the curve, material would need to be
> *removed* to fit the suggested curve. Any ideas/comments appreciated. 
> Thanks.
>
> Dan Torosian
>
>
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
>
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