Hi Guys, I hope this falls into the general topics of this forum but since
I've tried to get suitable answers to this elsewhere without success, I
figured the experts here would have some comments.

I've been trying different reeds on different mpc's and wonder about the
implications - tone, intonation and practical playability issues.  What
started me on this was a tenor reed on a baritone mpc.  I recently got a new
bari mpc and it was too narrow for my bari reeds so I tried a tenor reed
which fit perfectly along the side rails.  Aside from the issues of this
kind of reed switch, I have heard of people who use reeds that are too
narrow for a mpc and actually fit inside the side rails.  I would have
thought that this would create playing issues since we pay a great deal of
attention to the curvature of the side rails relative to the reed vibrations
and sealing.  If this actually works [haven't tried it myself yet] it would
seem to have implications to the attention paid to the rail curvature.

So, any comments about a reed being smaller [narrower] than the side rails?
How is it that some people claim to play and like the sound of this
combination?

Sorry if this seems inapropriate for this group, but I'm curious.
Ralph

I can not see how a narrow reed would work unless it covers at least a
small portion of the side rails.  But I have not tried it, nor do I intend to.


		
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Keith, that is what I thought but unless my chain is being yanked [always a
possibility] that is what I have been told.

As a side issue to this, what effect if any, would a reed that is wider than
the side rails have on playing?  It would seem that this would stop part of
the reed from vibrating and thus affect tone.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@...>
To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] playability and side rails


> I can not see how a narrow reed would work unless it covers at least a
> small portion of the side rails.  But I have not tried it, nor do I intend
to.
>
>
>
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Ralph,
For what it is worth, another example of non standard reeds would be 
Lenny Pickett of Satruday Night Live fame who is reported to use a bass 
clarinet reed on a Berg Larsen 130/0. Since you can't argue with an oboe 
not needing rails, it would seem that a smaller reed would "work" inside 
the rails.... JimG

Jim,

An oboe is a double reed instrument so where the reed meets would be similar to a rail.  I don't see how a mouthpiece would work properly without having the reed touch the rails to some degree as the player would be losing too much air out of the side of the mouthpiece IMHO if the rails weren't touching the reed.

Ed

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> Ralph, 
> For what it is worth, another example of non standard reeds would be 
> Lenny Pickett of Satruday Night Live fame who is reported to use a bass 
> clarinet reed on a Berg Larsen 130/0. Since you can't argue with an oboe 
> not needing rails, it would seem that a smaller reed would "work" inside 
> the rails.... JimG 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
> 
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, 
> Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. 
> 
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 
> Yahoo! Groups Links 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Bass clarinet and tenor sax reeds are virtually identical in width.  BC 
reeds are a little shorter in overall length, and the vamp cut is 
correspondingly shorter.

But back on topic...Ralph, I think someone is either jerking your chain or 
doesn't know what they're talking about.

Mike Ruhl


>From: Jim Goeckermann <jim@...>
>Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] playability and side rails
>Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 08:05:53 -0700
>
>Ralph,
>For what it is worth, another example of non standard reeds would be
>Lenny Pickett of Satruday Night Live fame who is reported to use a bass
>clarinet reed on a Berg Larsen 130/0. Since you can't argue with an oboe
>not needing rails, it would seem that a smaller reed would "work" inside
>the rails.... JimG
>
>
>
>
>
>Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
>Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the 
>Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
>To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
>

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Same thing goes for clarinet reeds on soprano sax...seems to work 
fine, especially when you use your last soprano reed.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Ruhl" <meruhl@h...> 
wrote:
> Bass clarinet and tenor sax reeds are virtually identical in 
width.  BC 
> reeds are a little shorter in overall length, and the vamp cut is 
> correspondingly shorter.
> 
> But back on topic...Ralph, I think someone is either jerking your 
chain or 
> doesn't know what they're talking about.
> 
> Mike Ruhl
> 
> 
> >From: Jim Goeckermann <jim@s...>
> >Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] playability and side rails
> >Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 08:05:53 -0700
> >
> >Ralph,
> >For what it is worth, another example of non standard reeds would 
be
> >Lenny Pickett of Satruday Night Live fame who is reported to use a 
bass
> >clarinet reed on a Berg Larsen 130/0. Since you can't argue with 
an oboe
> >not needing rails, it would seem that a smaller reed would "work" 
inside
> >the rails.... JimG
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to 
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to 
see the 
> >Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> >
> >To see and modify your groups, go to 
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! 
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

If the reed doesn't touch the rails then there is no seal and
correspondingly the mpc/reed combo doesn't work. I have tried tenor
reeds on Bari, in a situation of dire emergency and it doesn't happen.
It will work in reverse but there are issues here too.

God Bless
Bootman
Richard Booth
www.bootmanmusic.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Hopper [mailto:ralph.hopper@...] 
Sent: Thursday, 29 July 2004 1:06 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] playability and side rails

Keith, that is what I thought but unless my chain is being yanked
[always a
possibility] that is what I have been told.

As a side issue to this, what effect if any, would a reed that is wider
than
the side rails have on playing?  It would seem that this would stop part
of
the reed from vibrating and thus affect tone.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@...>
To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] playability and side rails


> I can not see how a narrow reed would work unless it covers at least a
> small portion of the side rails.  But I have not tried it, nor do I
intend
to.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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>
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> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
the
Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
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Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
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Yahoo! Groups Links



 

A piece with the insides of the rails wider then the reed won't make 
a sound, can't work. Some pieces, like Sugals, appear to have thick 
rails, but on some only a very small area of the rail is in contact 
with the reed's edge (the rest stick out on the outside) , almost 
same as a thin rail piece like mine or Guardala. 

Many pieces are narrower than the reed, the impact on vibration loss 
or sound/volume loss is minimal. The normal amount too small is 
fractions of a mm and up to 0.5mm. Some old Links, some FL Links are 
narrow, some wider. They work well. I have just sold a Guardala 
Studio, handmade, alto, that's also a fraction narrow, but it plays 
great. Some lazer trim models are too narrow. All this does is to 
cause a wide reed (17.5+mm) to sometimes cut into your lip (sharp 
edges) 

Cause in my experience is that they make a model of the mpc and then 
a mould. These are true size. Then they cast it, cool down, metal 
shrink, body sanded, finished, material removed, not as wide as it 
should be, but then --- Guardalas are machined, maybe we should ask 
master powell. With lost wax is worse... Master model->mould -> cast 
wax model -> shrink(already smaller) then invest in ceramic slurry, 
wax burnt out, metal cast -> shrink more. Stainless steel shrink 
even more than brass.BUT...

The width of the rails on the outside can easily be increased by 
just lowering the whole table + lay, as you might have seen when 
opening up a piece. 

If the lay and table is accurate and the baffle a good design, 0.5mm 
width won't make a big or noticable difference. There's other things 
that causes bigger changes in sound and playability.

Sometimes the opposite of what we expect happens, like sometimes a 
small window piece plays wonderful, some soprano piece have very 
small windows. 

Sometimes thicker rails give a more desirable tone, depends on the 
chamber design a lot and the body dimentions. 

Regards
JG
www.jgerber.com

The Runyon Model 22 has wide siderails.  Mr. Runyon called this the 
"squeek-proof facing".  Beginners could place the reed on less than 
perfectly, and the mouthpiece/reed will still function well.

Paul

jgerberza wrote:

> A piece with the insides of the rails wider then the reed won't make
> a sound, can't work. Some pieces, like Sugals, appear to have thick
> rails, but on some only a very small area of the rail is in contact
> with the reed's edge (the rest stick out on the outside) , almost
> same as a thin rail piece like mine or Guardala.
>
> Many pieces are narrower than the reed, the impact on vibration loss
> or sound/volume loss is minimal. The normal amount too small is
> fractions of a mm and up to 0.5mm. Some old Links, some FL Links are
> narrow, some wider. They work well. I have just sold a Guardala
> Studio, handmade, alto, that's also a fraction narrow, but it plays
> great. Some lazer trim models are too narrow. All this does is to
> cause a wide reed (17.5+mm) to sometimes cut into your lip (sharp
> edges)
>
> Cause in my experience is that they make a model of the mpc and then
> a mould. These are true size. Then they cast it, cool down, metal
> shrink, body sanded, finished, material removed, not as wide as it
> should be, but then --- Guardalas are machined, maybe we should ask
> master powell. With lost wax is worse... Master model->mould -> cast
> wax model -> shrink(already smaller) then invest in ceramic slurry,
> wax burnt out, metal cast -> shrink more. Stainless steel shrink
> even more than brass.BUT...
>
> The width of the rails on the outside can easily be increased by
> just lowering the whole table + lay, as you might have seen when
> opening up a piece.
>
> If the lay and table is accurate and the baffle a good design, 0.5mm
> width won't make a big or noticable difference. There's other things
> that causes bigger changes in sound and playability.
>
> Sometimes the opposite of what we expect happens, like sometimes a
> small window piece plays wonderful, some soprano piece have very
> small windows.
>
> Sometimes thicker rails give a more desirable tone, depends on the
> chamber design a lot and the body dimentions.
>
> Regards
> JG
> www.jgerber.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
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