Last night I did a jazz gig on bari sax with a tenor sax, alto sax, 
drums, upright bass, and pedal steel guitar. There was no 
sound system, so all the sax players were playing without mic's. 
A friend of mine in the audience commented that while he had 
no trouble hearing the alto or tenor players, I was harder to hear 
on my solos and completely buried on the ensemble parts that 
were not at high dynamics in the low octave. The club we were 
playing (Dragon's Den, New Orleans, LA) is known for having 
excellent acoustics. Audibility is a recurring problem when 
playing without a sound system, which is the case for most, if not 
all of my gigs with this group. I was wondering if a mouthpiece 
change or modification could address this problem. I love the 
tone I get on my current setup (RPC .130 on a  "The Martin" bari), 
but the audibility issue is a real problem. However, a change in 
tone could potentially be cool too. Any suggestions?

Dan
dhoestre@...

Your Martin bari probably has a tone on the dark side.  The RPC has curved
inner side walls which add some darkness.  RPCs are found with baffles to a
variable degree.  It depends on what the player wanted when it was made. 
But at .130", the piece probably has some baffle or a lot of baffle in it.

I think you should try a Runyon Custom Quantum Spoiler.  They are made out
of Delrin plastic and can really rip.  Yet, you can fatten your bottom lip
on them to dampen the tone for a darker sound when you want it.

The size of the Quantum will be much smaller in your mouth than the RPC. 
More like an alto piece.  This will take some getting used to.  You'll
probably need to try something in the 14-16 range to match your .130" RPC.  


	
		
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Is the Runyon custom 13 listed on your site still available?


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury 
<kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> Your Martin bari probably has a tone on the dark side.  The RPC 
has curved
> inner side walls which add some darkness.  RPCs are found with 
baffles to a
> variable degree.  It depends on what the player wanted when it was 
made. 
> But at .130", the piece probably has some baffle or a lot of 
baffle in it.
> 
> I think you should try a Runyon Custom Quantum Spoiler.  They are 
made out
> of Delrin plastic and can really rip.  Yet, you can fatten your 
bottom lip
> on them to dampen the tone for a darker sound when you want it.
> 
> The size of the Quantum will be much smaller in your mouth than 
the RPC. 
> More like an alto piece.  This will take some getting used to.  
You'll
> probably need to try something in the 14-16 range to match 
your .130" RPC.  
> 
> 
> 	
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://messenger.yahoo.com/

Dan, you live or are regularly in the N.O. area?  I am in Morgan City, 
about 1 � hr drive from N.O.  You want to arrange a time to come over 
and work on this?  Try some mouthpieces?

 

Write me at tenorman at teche dot net. 

 

Paul

danieloestreicher wrote:

> Last night I did a jazz gig on bari sax with a tenor sax, alto sax,
> drums, upright bass, and pedal steel guitar. There was no
> sound system, so all the sax players were playing without mic's.
> A friend of mine in the audience commented that while he had
> no trouble hearing the alto or tenor players, I was harder to hear
> on my solos and completely buried on the ensemble parts that
> were not at high dynamics in the low octave. The club we were
> playing (Dragon's Den, New Orleans, LA) is known for having
> excellent acoustics. Audibility is a recurring problem when
> playing without a sound system, which is the case for most, if not
> all of my gigs with this group. I was wondering if a mouthpiece
> change or modification could address this problem. I love the
> tone I get on my current setup (RPC .130 on a  "The Martin" bari),
> but the audibility issue is a real problem. However, a change in
> tone could potentially be cool too. Any suggestions?
>
> Dan
> dhoestre@...
>
>
>
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>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 
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--- danieloestreicher <dhoestre@...> wrote:
> Last night I did a jazz gig on bari sax with a tenor
> sax, alto sax, 
> drums, upright bass, and pedal steel guitar. There
> was no 
> sound system, so all the sax players were playing
> without mic's. 
> A friend of mine in the audience commented that
> while he had 
> no trouble hearing the alto or tenor players, I was
> harder to hear 
> on my solos and completely buried on the ensemble
> parts that 
> were not at high dynamics in the low octave. The
> club we were 
> playing (Dragon's Den, New Orleans, LA) is known for
> having 
> excellent acoustics. Audibility is a recurring
> problem when 
> playing without a sound system, which is the case
> for most, if not 
> all of my gigs with this group. I was wondering if a
> mouthpiece 
> change or modification could address this problem. I
> love the 
> tone I get on my current setup (RPC .130 on a  "The
> Martin" bari), 
> but the audibility issue is a real problem. However,
> a change in 
> tone could potentially be cool too. Any suggestions?
> 
> Dan
> dhoestre@...
> 
> 
Hi:

You might want to try A Lawton or a Runyon Quantum
with a big tip opening.  Also, if you can, try to talk
to Ernie Northway in Utah.  He makes some that have
higher baffles in hard rubber.

BK


	
		
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Hey Dan,as a Bari player I can feel your pain.  Let's face it, the Bari just
doesn't project as well as
altos and tenors and it's hard to compete.

The crowd and acoustics of the place seem to come into place also.

If you feel you're not cutting though, you need a mouthpiece with more edge
and brightness that you may not like. But, with out a mike that's your only
choice.  I'm sure you were blowing your brains out ,but if you don't have a
piece that has an edgy tone you're gonna be lost. Just my 2cents worth.
It's hard to balance it out.

Jim Lemke-BariBoy




>

That is unless the Bari is a Conn Tranny with a big mpc and reed. I
usually get asked to play softer.

God Bless
Bootman
Richard Booth
www.bootmanmusic.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lemke [mailto:jimlem@...] 
Sent: Monday, 14 June 2004 12:49 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] More volume and cut on bari


Hey Dan,as a Bari player I can feel your pain.  Let's face it, the Bari
just
doesn't project as well as
altos and tenors and it's hard to compete.

The crowd and acoustics of the place seem to come into place also.

If you feel you're not cutting though, you need a mouthpiece with more
edge
and brightness that you may not like. But, with out a mike that's your
only
choice.  I'm sure you were blowing your brains out ,but if you don't
have a
piece that has an edgy tone you're gonna be lost. Just my 2cents worth.
It's hard to balance it out.

Jim Lemke-BariBoy




>




Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

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Yahoo! Groups Links



 

What about the Conn Tranny gives it more volume/projection?


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Bootman" 
<rbooth@b...> wrote:
> That is unless the Bari is a Conn Tranny with a big mpc and 
reed. I
> usually get asked to play softer.
> 
> God Bless
> Bootman
> Richard Booth
> www.bootmanmusic.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Lemke [mailto:jimlem@w...] 
> Sent: Monday, 14 June 2004 12:49 PM
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] More volume and cut on bari
> 
> 
> Hey Dan,as a Bari player I can feel your pain.  Let's face it, the 
Bari
> just
> doesn't project as well as
> altos and tenors and it's hard to compete.
> 
> The crowd and acoustics of the place seem to come into place 
also.
> 
> If you feel you're not cutting though, you need a mouthpiece 
with more
> edge
> and brightness that you may not like. But, with out a mike that's 
your
> only
> choice.  I'm sure you were blowing your brains out ,but if you 
don't
> have a
> piece that has an edgy tone you're gonna be lost. Just my 
2cents worth.
> It's hard to balance it out.
> 
> Jim Lemke-BariBoy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork 
to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> 
> To see and modify your groups, go to 
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 
> Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi All,
I recently moved to a Fibracell 3.5 reed (SA-II bari, Berg 125/3 metal): a good way to gain power and cut. The low end pianissimo is a bit more difficult.
Greetings from sunny Switzerland              db



		
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Dan,
  You have been given several good suggestions so far about mouthpieces but 
these are likely to just treat a symptom and not solve your problem. I play 
almost entirely in acoustic settings with big bands and a jazz quintet. We 
use mics less than 10% of the time. Your horn and mouthpiece are plenty loud 
enough - just ask your neighbors;). The problem you have is one of balance 
and listening and won't be solved by you getting louder. My experience is 
that the more you play out the louder the rest of the guys in band will get. 
This is because the way they are used to hearing themselves in relation to 
you and the rest of the band (the overall balance) has not changed. So, when 
you play louder - they play louder so that the balance they are used to 
hearing is restored. This problem is especially apparent in bands that are 
used to playing with amplification. Typically they don't worry about this 
much because they are used to having a sound engineer adjust the balance for 
them. Generating this awareness is not always as easy - one of the reasons 
concert bands, big bands and orchestras have directors or conductors; a 
luxury that most smaller groups must do without.

My suggestions would be;
- rehearse without mics and record it or better yet invite another muscian 
(preferably one that knows what it should sound like) to sit in, listen to 
you and make suggestions
- make sure everyone agrees on the way the tune should sound and they should 
sound relative to the group
- if you can rearrange parts so the horns are playing in different ranges - 
when playing in unison an alto in its lower range and/or a tenor in middle 
range will almost always drown out a bari playing in high range unless 
everyone is paying close attention to balance
- on gigs be especially aware of drums and amplified instruments (guitar, 
keys, and bass) anyone of these turned up or playing too loud can throw the 
balance off
- if the room or ambient noise level is such that the band must play at 
"blastissimo" levels to be heard - use a PA system

IMHO, balance and intonation are two of the most important and overlooked 
skills needed to play in groups and its agreeing upon these things that 
makes a band a band and not just a bunch of guys blowing horns next to each 
other.

Just my $.02 - Good Luck,

Keith

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The tranny just projects better than other Baris I have played. The mid
range which is where you were soloing doesn't get buried in the
ensemble, the bottom end thunders and the top end is very loud. I am
using a Lamberson 8DD with a Plasticover 3 1/2 reed, the plasticover
darkens this mpc up but still retains cut and projection. Best of all,
they last a long time too. To get projection out of the horn as opposed
to out and out volume, think of filling the space with you sound.
Practise outside in the open air rather than against a wall.

God Bless
Bootman
Richard Booth
www.bootmanmusic.com


-----Original Message-----
From: danieloestreicher [mailto:dhoestre@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2004 1:33 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: More volume and cut on bari

What about the Conn Tranny gives it more volume/projection?


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Bootman" 
<rbooth@b...> wrote:
> That is unless the Bari is a Conn Tranny with a big mpc and 
reed. I
> usually get asked to play softer.
> 
> God Bless
> Bootman
> Richard Booth
> www.bootmanmusic.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Lemke [mailto:jimlem@w...] 
> Sent: Monday, 14 June 2004 12:49 PM
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] More volume and cut on bari
> 
> 
> Hey Dan,as a Bari player I can feel your pain.  Let's face it, the 
Bari
> just
> doesn't project as well as
> altos and tenors and it's hard to compete.
> 
> The crowd and acoustics of the place seem to come into place 
also.
> 
> If you feel you're not cutting though, you need a mouthpiece 
with more
> edge
> and brightness that you may not like. But, with out a mike that's 
your
> only
> choice.  I'm sure you were blowing your brains out ,but if you 
don't
> have a
> piece that has an edgy tone you're gonna be lost. Just my 
2cents worth.
> It's hard to balance it out.
> 
> Jim Lemke-BariBoy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork 
to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> 
> To see and modify your groups, go to 
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 
> Yahoo! Groups Links




Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 

Dan - 
Brilhart metal (old style) level air works good but you are dealing
with physics on the "cutting thru" part... every notice how piccolo
cuts thru... there's a reason. 
Or you could ask the bass player to lay out and have the drummer quiet
down a bit.
Good Luck

Everyone is providing good thoughts and ideas, but we really don't 
know your situation completely...

I don't think it might be a gear problem as much as it might be 
related to other issues, such as ensemble balance or your own 
playing.  I would recommend practicing long tones in the lower 
register of your horn, long and low and loud.  Also practice them 
softly, in fact, in the Rachser book "Top Tones" there is something 
called Terrace Dynamics that would be excellent.  
It won't happen overnight.  

Also check out how far the mpc goes into your mouth, maybe it's too 
far?  Maybe not far enough?  

Soirry to be so general but we really need more info on you and your 
situation, in fact, to answer your question best, you should find 
someone in your area who is doing what you want to do and talk to 
them...

All the best,

Fritz