Would someone please be so kind as to suggest a facing curve
for a baritone mouthpiece that I am trying to give a good shape to.
I would like a facing length that is not too short nor too long.
And a tip opening that is not too close nor too open.
The measurements at present are..
.0015 = 25mm
.010  = 17mm
.024  = 12mm
.034  = 10mm
.044  = 7mm
.060  = 5mm
tip   = 2.16mm

I really do not know how good or bad the above facing is.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Best regards, Peter

Your data for the existing facing curve indicates a pretty bad 
curve.  The reading for the .060" feeler looks low.  If true, there 
would be a flat section in the middle of the curve and quite a flip 
near the tip.  I loaded a new Excel spreadsheet in the Files Methods 
area called "Facing Curve - message 1952".  

It has a plot of your curve compared to an arc of best fit and also a 
curve I would recommend for you to try.  You current tip is .085".  I 
recommended .095", without knowning anything about the type of 
playing and experiance level this is for.  The curve is repeated 
below.

0.0015	50.0	25.0 mm
0.010	38.9	19.5
0.024	29.0	14.5
0.034	23.7	11.9
0.044	19.2	9.6
0.060	12.8	6.4

0.095	1.5	0.7 

Tip is .095" = 2.41 mm

Thankyou Keith for your analysis.
I always thought that there might be a flat spot somewhere.
I will make modifications and will let you know my findings
Many Many thanks.
Peter

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Bradbury" 
<kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> Your data for the existing facing curve indicates a pretty bad 
> curve.  The reading for the .060" feeler looks low.  If true, there 
> would be a flat section in the middle of the curve and quite a flip 
> near the tip.  I loaded a new Excel spreadsheet in the Files 
Methods 
> area called "Facing Curve - message 1952".  
> 
> It has a plot of your curve compared to an arc of best fit and also 
a 
> curve I would recommend for you to try.  You current tip is .085".  
I 
> recommended .095", without knowning anything about the type of 
> playing and experiance level this is for.  The curve is repeated 
> below.
> 
> 0.0015	50.0	25.0 mm
> 0.010	38.9	19.5
> 0.024	29.0	14.5
> 0.034	23.7	11.9
> 0.044	19.2	9.6
> 0.060	12.8	6.4
> 
> 0.095	1.5	0.7 
> 
> Tip is .095" = 2.41 mm

Keith,
I have looked at the Facing curve spreadsheet that you have kindly 
put in the files section. Can I just check with you one of the 
figures.
In the Blue column headed Data
against the Feeler size 0.060 the Data is 5, Can you confirm that 
this is correct - should it not be 10 (giving a Diff of 2.8)

I don't have excel, and am using microsoft works, which doesn't have 
a tools solver - and because of this it is taking me some time to 
utilize the spreadsheets, this is why I have been asking you about 
the facing curves.
Please excuse my ignorance - I look forward to your reply,Thankyou 
for your patience.
Best wishes, Peter.

Yes, you are correct.  I'll upload the corrected analysis.  My 
suggested facing curve does not change.

Hi Keith,
I have adjusted the baritone m/p in line with your suggested facing, and I 
must say
it is now playing very well indeed.
Many thanks for your advice
Best regards, Peter

Good to hear.  All it takes is a good plan and good execution 
(craftsmanship).  Congrats.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Bradbury" 
<kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> Good to hear.  All it takes is a good plan and good execution 
> (craftsmanship).  Congrats.

To go a little further...

The mouthpiece  now plays better than ever.

As the tip opened up the baffle became higher, which produced
squeaks, I remedied this using my penknife, lowering the baffle, 
which has rectified the problem.

At the moment the tip rail is quite thin in comparison with the
side rails. - Do you think that it would be a good idea to thin the 
side rails especially where the rails get closer to the tip rail???

Best Regards. Peter

A thin tip rail is primarily good for a fast response.  It can also be edgy
and bright.  Some player chirp more with thin tip and side rails.

If the side rails are thick and wider than the reed, they can be trimmed
from the outside.  This probably wont change the sound but may help
response a little.  Some players notice a difference in comfort, some
better, some worse, but its not a big deal.

If the sides already match the reed, you can thin the side rails by opening
the window.  The largest effect will be from near the tip where the reed
amplitude is the largest.  The sound will get bigger and fuller.  More of
the reed is participating in creating sound instead of just flappin'
against the (wide) side rails.  One downside is that reeds might tend to
wear out sooner.  The very edges take a more concentated beating with thin
rails.




	
		
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Yes, Keith, in fact, the corners of the reed are the part that take the most 
punishment.  

 

Thin tip and side rails also require perfect alignment of the reed to prevent 
chirping.  I note that the Runyon 22 had wide side rails and a medium width tip rail.  
Santy called that his "squeak resistant facing", allowing some misalignment of the 
reed without problems for young beginners.  But advanced players don't need 
"training wheels", they need response.

 

 

Paul

Keith Bradbury wrote:

>A thin tip rail is primarily good for a fast response.  It can also be edgy
>and bright.  Some player chirp more with thin tip and side rails.
>
>If the side rails are thick and wider than the reed, they can be trimmed
>from the outside.  This probably wont change the sound but may help
>response a little.  Some players notice a difference in comfort, some
>better, some worse, but its not a big deal.
>
>If the sides already match the reed, you can thin the side rails by opening
>the window.  The largest effect will be from near the tip where the reed
>amplitude is the largest.  The sound will get bigger and fuller.  More of
>the reed is participating in creating sound instead of just flappin'
>against the (wide) side rails.  One downside is that reeds might tend to
>wear out sooner.  The very edges take a more concentated beating with thin
>rails.
>
>
>
>
>	
>		
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>Do you Yahoo!?
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>http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer 
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