Tips, (cutting of) (Mouthpiece Work Yahoo Group)

FROM: bluesnote2000 (bluesnote2000)

SUBJECT: Tips, (cutting of)

Hi:

Can any of you ladies or gentlemen offer me any suggestions on tools 
and methods of cutting a fairly professional looking tip, especially 
when you have a case in which you had to open a mouthpiece up alot, 
and it has that amorphous, wierd look to it, with no identifiable tip?

Thanks,

Bob

FROM: kymarto (Toby)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

I use a very small half-round file to create a tip rail. I find it important to make sure that there is some "air space" just behind the tip rail, even on a high-baffle piece. I have found that if the baffle rolls over into the tip, as happens when you open a piece up a lot, that the sound tends to be very thin and the reed has a tendency to chirp, as well as feeling unresponsive. I usually start filing a few millimeters behind the tip rail and gradually work my way back to the tip until I have a well defined rail. Be careful--it's easy to angle the file too obliquely and cut into the rail itself.

I also find that it is important that the tip rail be flat--so that when the reed is closed against it it is in contact with all parts of the rail. When you are opening up the mpc and making the lay it is very easy to go too far and round the leading edge of the tip rail.

That's what I do. Perhaps the pros have some other tips for the tip.
----- Original Message -----
From: bluesnote2000
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Tips, (cutting of)

Hi:

Can any of you ladies or gentlemen offer me any suggestions on tools
and methods of cutting a fairly professional looking tip, especially
when you have a case in which you had to open a mouthpiece up alot,
and it has that amorphous, wierd look to it, with no identifiable tip?

Thanks,

Bob

Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

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FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

This is exactly what I do, too, Toby.

Paul

Toby wrote:

> I use a very small half-round file to create a tip rail. I find it 
> important to make sure that there is some "air space" just behind the 
> tip rail, even on a high-baffle piece. I have found that if the baffle 
> rolls over into the tip, as happens when you open a piece up a lot, 
> that the sound tends to be very thin and the reed has a tendency to 
> chirp, as well as feeling unresponsive. I usually start filing a few 
> millimeters behind the tip rail and gradually work my way back to the 
> tip until I have a well defined rail. Be careful--it's easy to angle 
> the file too obliquely and cut into the rail itself.
>  
> I also find that it is important that the tip rail be flat--so that 
> when the reed is closed against it it is in contact with all parts of 
> the rail. When you are opening up the mpc and making the lay it is 
> very easy to go too far and round the leading edge of the tip rail.
>  
> That's what I do. Perhaps the pros have some other tips for the tip.
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: bluesnote2000 <mailto:bluesnote2000@...>
>     To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>     <mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
>     Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 10:47 AM
>     Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Tips, (cutting of)
>
>     Hi:
>
>     Can any of you ladies or gentlemen offer me any suggestions on tools
>     and methods of cutting a fairly professional looking tip, especially
>     when you have a case in which you had to open a mouthpiece up alot,
>     and it has that amorphous, wierd look to it, with no identifiable tip?
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Bob
>
>
>
>     Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
>     MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com <mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
>
>     Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to
>     see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
>     To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
>
>
>
>     Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
>     MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to
>     see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
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>
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FROM: bluesnote2000 (dan lunsford)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

--- Paul Coats <tenorman@...> wrote:
> This is exactly what I do, too, Toby.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Toby wrote:
> 
> > I use a very small half-round file to create a tip
> rail. I find it 
> > important to make sure that there is some "air
> space" just behind the 
> > tip rail, even on a high-baffle piece. I have
> found that if the baffle 
> > rolls over into the tip, as happens when you open
> a piece up a lot, 
> > that the sound tends to be very thin and the reed
> has a tendency to 
> > chirp, as well as feeling unresponsive. I usually
> start filing a few 
> > millimeters behind the tip rail and gradually work
> my way back to the 
> > tip until I have a well defined rail. Be
> careful--it's easy to angle 
> > the file too obliquely and cut into the rail
> itself.
> >  
> > I also find that it is important that the tip rail
> be flat--so that 
> > when the reed is closed against it it is in
> contact with all parts of 
> > the rail. When you are opening up the mpc and
> making the lay it is 
> > very easy to go too far and round the leading edge
> of the tip rail.
> >  
> > That's what I do. Perhaps the pros have some other
> tips for the tip.
> >
> >     ----- Original Message -----
> >     From: bluesnote2000
> <mailto:bluesnote2000@...>
> >     To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >     <mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
> >     Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 10:47 AM
> >     Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Tips, (cutting of)
> >
> >     Hi:
> >
> >     Can any of you ladies or gentlemen offer me
> any suggestions on tools
> >     and methods of cutting a fairly professional
> looking tip, especially
> >     when you have a case in which you had to open
> a mouthpiece up alot,
> >     and it has that amorphous, wierd look to it,
> with no identifiable tip?
> >
> >     Thanks,
> >
> >     Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >     Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> >     MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
> >
> >     Visit the site at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to
> >     see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating
> to Mouthpiece Work.
> >
> >     To see and modify your groups, go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> >     MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     Visit the site at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to
> >     see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating
> to Mouthpiece Work.
> >
> >     To see and modify your groups, go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> >
> >
> >     Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >     ADVERTISEMENT
> >    
>
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG9hf5e7m/M'3541.4247512.5496808.2248467/D=groups/S05032198:HM/EXP84101039/A 61551/R=0/SIGsr5b9n1/*http://launch.yahoo.com/artist/videos.asp?artistID01301>
> >
> >
> >
> >    
>
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> >           Service
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> >
> >Hi:

Thanks! Also, the one thing I do is work horizontally
with an angled plastic sheet cutter made by Hyde.  It
is a double sided type, and cuts nicely but maybe I
should go back to the half round file, it might be a
lot better.

Bob 



	
		
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FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

I used to use a "1/2 round" file, about 1/4" wide tapering to a point, but
now I'm favoring a 1/8" x 1/8" file.  I also use a small pocket knife blade
on the softer materials for fine shaping inside the tip rail.

On point not mentioned is that now that you have a wide tip rail, this is a
good time to shape the end to match the curve of the reed tip.  Also, if
the beak edge is not too pointy you can trim the outside of the tip rail
some more to thicken it up.  This moves the zero point of your facing curve
so you will have to decide if you want to make more facing adjustments or
not.  Sometimes this gets you out of a jam if you overshot your facing
target.  Otherwise you need to cut the table some more or change your target.


	
		
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FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury 
<kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> I used to use a "1/2 round" file, about 1/4" wide tapering to a 
point, but
> now I'm favoring a 1/8" x 1/8" file...

I was a little off.  My 1/2 round is actually 3/8" wide and my square 
file is 3/16" x 3/16".

FROM: bluesnote2000 (dan lunsford)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

--- Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith
> Bradbury 
> <kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> > I used to use a "1/2 round" file, about 1/4" wide
> tapering to a 
> point, but
> > now I'm favoring a 1/8" x 1/8" file...
> 
> I was a little off.  My 1/2 round is actually 3/8"
> wide and my square 
> file is 3/16" x 3/16".
> 

Hi:

Yes, the sqare file can be useful, and I find they are
good and sharp, with a clean angle. By the way, I
cannot seem to find 4" half round files individually. 
Is there a good source for those, as I do not want to
buya kit just to get one.

Thanks for all your help (as always)

Bob> 
> 
> 

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FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

I buy files from www.micromark.com

They are primarily aimed at model builders, but many of their tools and 
materials are very useful for work on mouthpieces or sax repair.  Order 
the free catalog online.  It is easier than searching the site.

Paul

dan lunsford wrote:

>
> --- Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith
> > Bradbury
> > <kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> > > I used to use a "1/2 round" file, about 1/4" wide
> > tapering to a
> > point, but
> > > now I'm favoring a 1/8" x 1/8" file...
> >
> > I was a little off.  My 1/2 round is actually 3/8"
> > wide and my square
> > file is 3/16" x 3/16".
> >
>
> Hi:
>
> Yes, the sqare file can be useful, and I find they are
> good and sharp, with a clean angle. By the way, I
> cannot seem to find 4" half round files individually.
> Is there a good source for those, as I do not want to
> buya kit just to get one.
>
> Thanks for all your help (as always)
>
> Bob>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>      
>            
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FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

Nearly all my files have come from MicroMark.  Their kits of 4-8 files cost
about as much as 1 or 2 individual files.

Item #60526 has 8 files for $14.95.  I use maybe 4 of the shapes.

I also purchased a set of 4 from them that are finer with handles dipped in
red rubber.  That set does not come up on their site.  That is where I got
my square file from.

I have a set of coarse riffler files from them too.


	
		
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FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

> I also purchased a set of 4 from them that are finer with handles 
dipped in
> red rubber.  That set does not come up on their site.  That is 
where I got
> my square file from.
>

This is set #81063 for $9.95.   www.micromark.com

File card # 70216 ~$5.50.

FROM: bluesnote2000 (dan lunsford)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

--- Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
> 
> > I also purchased a set of 4 from them that are
> finer with handles 
> dipped in
> > red rubber.  That set does not come up on their
> site.  That is 
> where I got
> > my square file from.
> >
> 
> This is set #81063 for $9.95.   www.micromark.com
> 
> File card # 70216 ~$5.50.
> 
> Hi:

Thanks for the information!

Bob

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FROM: spr1ng64 (Patrick)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

You guys all use ROUND files to do this? I cannot get a straight line
no matter how I try with a round file. It looks like a row of bad
teeth when I get done - crooked as a Lousiana lawyer...
Granted this is THE most frustrating part of this art, but still when
I look at JVW or Johannes work, there has to be something I am
missing. "What one man can do, another can do" (with tons of practice...)
What will really fry you is once you get a decent looking tip rail,
then you go to sand down your file marks and goof the rail with the
paper!!!
I am going to experiment with an old fashioned scribe for the tip...
we'll see what happens.

FROM: bluesnote2000 (dan lunsford)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

--- Patrick <spr1ng64@...> wrote:
> You guys all use ROUND files to do this? I cannot
> get a straight line
> no matter how I try with a round file. It looks like
> a row of bad
> teeth when I get done - crooked as a Lousiana
> lawyer...
> Granted this is THE most frustrating part of this
> art, but still when
> I look at JVW or Johannes work, there has to be
> something I am
> missing. "What one man can do, another can do" (with
> tons of practice...)
> What will really fry you is once you get a decent
> looking tip rail,
> then you go to sand down your file marks and goof
> the rail with the
> paper!!!
> I am going to experiment with an old fashioned
> scribe for the tip...
> we'll see what happens.
> 
> Hi:

I try with a round file.  The tips look OK, but there
has to be a better way to do it, which I really> have
not found yet.

BK 



	
		
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FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

I think we all said "1/2 round".  The side used most often is the 
flat side.

FROM: kymarto (Toby)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

Well you can't use a flat file since the tip rail is curved. AFAIK we're not talking about actual round files here, but elliptical files. I think the secret is in keeping the file moving during the stroke, and working slowly, without too much pressure.

Toby
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 6:45 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Tips, (cutting of)

You guys all use ROUND files to do this? I cannot get a straight line
no matter how I try with a round file. It looks like a row of bad
teeth when I get done - crooked as a Lousiana lawyer...
Granted this is THE most frustrating part of this art, but still when
I look at JVW or Johannes work, there has to be something I am
missing. "What one man can do, another can do" (with tons of practice...)
What will really fry you is once you get a decent looking tip rail,
then you go to sand down your file marks and goof the rail with the
paper!!!
I am going to experiment with an old fashioned scribe for the tip...
we'll see what happens.

Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

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FROM: bluesnote2000 (dan lunsford)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

--- Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
> I think we all said "1/2 round".  The side used most
> often is the 
> flat side.
> 
> Keith:

Do you use the flat side of the half round file alot
for forming the tip?  

BK

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FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)

SUBJECT: Re: Tips, (cutting of)

>Do you use the flat side of the half round file a lot for forming the tip?


I used to.  Since it tapers to a point, you can use a 1/8"-3/16" wide
section of it to define the tip rail.  Sometimes I flipped it over for a
few strokes.

Like I sadi before, now I mostly use a 3/16" wide square file.  


	
		
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