Mouthpiece Work / soprano saxophone - high notes
FROM: pjhmusic2004 (pjhmusic2004)
SUBJECT: soprano saxophone - high notes
Please help with your friendly advice! I have a soprano mp that is stubborn on the high notes F , F# - The notes sometime do not sound without exceptional effort. ( The low notes are fine ). What properties of a mp will help make the high notes easier to play! Many thanks Peter
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: soprano saxophone - high notes
Peter, sometimes it is the mouthpiece/reed, sometimes the player, sometimes a combination of both. The Mk VI sopranos are stuffy up high, and at best, the high notes were difficult. A mouthpiece setup that gives a very dark tone is more difficult to play up high. You need something with a moderate baffle for the high notes. There are plenty of good mouthpieces out there. Many who try the Runyon Custom for the first time report ease of high register. One guy said, now I need palm key risers. I never bothered before, in 20 years I have not been able to play above D. This was a guy who was a fine alto/tenor/bari/clarinet/flute player. With the Custom he was able to play up there instantly. All of the Runyon soprano models play up high well. Also the Jody Jazz. I just got a Jody Jazz ESP soprano that is simply outstanding. BTW, I play daily up to A3... as in high F, F#, G, G#, A. You have to play high G's and A's for Percy Grainger's Shepherd's Hey (Paul Cohen's arr for sax quartet), for example. Now, the player... for alto sax, high fork E and fork F, F#, all require a slight alteration of the oral cavity. No, not the throat... the MOUTH. OK, let me explain how to do this. This is so easy... you can whistle, right? OK, whistle a scale. Do it again, but this time, pay attention to what moves when you whistle and change pitch. Did you make the lips tighter? No. Did you alter the throat, opening or closing? No, that is really difficult, and I don't know where that idea came from. It is the TONGUE that moves. Feel what you are doing, you are raising the lowering the tongue, from an ahhh position to an ehhh postion to an eeee position. Arching the tongure up in the middle. This reduces the volume between the tongue and roof of the mouth, thereby speeding up the airstream, and focusing it toward the reed. This is the trick for high notes, NOT tightening the embouchure. That is detrimental. There may be a tiny increase in pressure, but that is very slight. It is the tongue position that really does the trick. For alto you must do this for high fork E, F, and F#. But for soprano, this same alteration of oral cavity must begin about high A or B (which is E-F# on alto!), and by the time you get to C (which would be a G on the alto), it is nearly an eeee tongue position. I find reeds that have a medium to bright cut work better for high notes, too. Rico, Plasticover, Lavoz, Java, Fibracell, and others. The very heavy cuts, like Vandoren blue box, are more difficult. Going to a very hard reed is not helpful either. Very hard does not fibrate up high, and too soft closes up and chokes off. Like Goldilocks porridge, it has to be just right. Well, hope this all helps. Paul pjhmusic2004 wrote: > Please help with your friendly advice! > > I have a soprano mp that is stubborn on the high notes F , F# - The > notes sometime do not sound without exceptional effort. ( The low > notes are fine ). > > What properties of a mp will help make the high notes easier to play! > > Many thanks > Peter > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG95laudb/M'3541.4247512.5496808.2248467/D=groups/S05032198:HM/EXP83617205/A 61551/R=0/SIGsr5b9n1/*http://launch.yahoo.com/artist/videos.asp?artistID01301> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > >
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: soprano saxophone - high notes
Now, specifically about the mouthpiece... The baffle needs to be just right. By baffle, I am not talking the entire roof of the chamber, just the first 1/8" or so on a soprano mouthpiece. Too high (close to the reed), and the mouthpiece will be excessively bright, and spit will tend to collect between the reed and baffle and give an irritating sizzle. If the baffle is too low, or concave, that is, there is a straight line from the inside edge of the tip rail on back to the roof of the mouthpiece, no "rollover" at all, the mouthpiece will tend to play "stuffy" or resistant. The tone will be quite dark. High notes will be difficult. Projection will be nil. Examples of this are the Caravan and Rascher mouthpieces. Guys want a dark tone, buy these, then complain that their solo passages in concert band are covered up by the flute player. Go figure. Too small tip opening is another problem for high notes. To keep the reed from choking off, blowing shut, a very hard reed must be used. See my comments on the Rascher/Caravan mouthpieces. The throat, where the chamber enters the bore, should have some focus to it, not too large. In this respect, the very old Selmer Soloist sopranos, and the Selmer Paris metals and LT's have a good shape there. Their problem is the small tip opening... C*. Who decided on THAT tip opening??? Also, the baffle is too low to be a good classical piece. The player fights a bright edgy tone, trying to get a dark tone with a high baffle. The mouthpiece sizzles from spit collecting there. You cannot see where the tip rail ends and the baffle begins. Wet the reed and depress it with your finger, and you see it is touching the baffle for about 1/4" from the tip! Well, that is too "high" a baffle. A few minutes with the file will fix that. So, the baffle has to be just right. A very wide mouthpiece with concave sidewalls can also give a spread, unfocused tone, and be difficult to play up high. And with all this, some guy will come along with such a mouthpiece, with what appears to be all bad features, and it will play great. But what I describe above is what I have observed in working on mouthpieces for many years. Paul pjhmusic2004 wrote: > Please help with your friendly advice! > > I have a soprano mp that is stubborn on the high notes F , F# - The > notes sometime do not sound without exceptional effort. ( The low > notes are fine ). > > What properties of a mp will help make the high notes easier to play! > > Many thanks > Peter > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG95laudb/M'3541.4247512.5496808.2248467/D=groups/S05032198:HM/EXP83617205/A 61551/R=0/SIGsr5b9n1/*http://launch.yahoo.com/artist/videos.asp?artistID01301> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > >
FROM: kymarto (Toby)
SUBJECT: Re: soprano saxophone - high notes
Paul got me a Runyon Quantum sop mpc that does very well in the palms of my old Conn sop, which is truly a bitch up high. I tried a bunch of different mpcs before, and most were a lost cause up there with this horn. I had played for years on a vintage Berg Larsen which does pretty well, but the Runyon is a bit more free-blowing with a bit more body and just as good at the top in response. Be warned however that some horns are just much harder to play in the palms, and the mpc cannot completely solve the problem.
Toby
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Coats
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] soprano saxophone - high notes
Peter, sometimes it is the mouthpiece/reed, sometimes the player, sometimes a combination of both. The Mk VI sopranos are stuffy up high, and at best, the high notes were difficult.
A mouthpiece setup that gives a very dark tone is more difficult to play up high. You need something with a moderate baffle for the high notes. There are plenty of good mouthpieces out there.
Many who try the Runyon Custom for the first time report ease of high register. One guy said, now I need palm key risers. I never bothered before, in 20 years I have not been able to play above D. This was a guy who was a fine alto/tenor/bari/clarinet/flute player. With the Custom he was able to play up there instantly. All of the Runyon soprano models play up high well. Also the Jody Jazz. I just got a Jody Jazz ESP soprano that is simply outstanding.
BTW, I play daily up to A3... as in high F, F#, G, G#, A. You have to play high G's and A's for Percy Grainger's Shepherd's Hey (Paul Cohen's arr for sax quartet), for example.
Now, the player... for alto sax, high fork E and fork F, F#, all require a slight alteration of the oral cavity. No, not the throat... the MOUTH. OK, let me explain how to do this.
This is so easy... you can whistle, right? OK, whistle a scale. Do it again, but this time, pay attention to what moves when you whistle and change pitch. Did you make the lips tighter? No. Did you alter the throat, opening or closing? No, that is really difficult, and I don't know where that idea came from.
It is the TONGUE that moves. Feel what you are doing, you are raising the lowering the tongue, from an ahhh position to an ehhh postion to an eeee position. Arching the tongure up in the middle. This reduces the volume between the tongue and roof of the mouth, thereby speeding up the airstream, and focusing it toward the reed. This is the trick for high notes, NOT tightening the embouchure. That is detrimental. There may be a tiny increase in pressure, but that is very slight. It is the tongue position that really does the trick.
For alto you must do this for high fork E, F, and F#.
But for soprano, this same alteration of oral cavity must begin about high A or B (which is E-F# on alto!), and by the time you get to C (which would be a G on the alto), it is nearly an eeee tongue position.
I find reeds that have a medium to bright cut work better for high notes, too. Rico, Plasticover, Lavoz, Java, Fibracell, and others. The very heavy cuts, like Vandoren blue box, are more difficult. Going to a very hard reed is not helpful either. Very hard does not fibrate up high, and too soft closes up and chokes off. Like Goldilocks porridge, it has to be just right.
Well, hope this all helps.
Paul
pjhmusic2004 wrote:
Please help with your friendly advice!
I have a soprano mp that is stubborn on the high notes F , F# - The
notes sometime do not sound without exceptional effort. ( The low
notes are fine ).
What properties of a mp will help make the high notes easier to play!
Many thanks
Peter
Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
FROM: pjhmusic2004 (peterhepplewhite@...)
SUBJECT: Re: soprano saxophone - high notes
Thankyou Paul for you detailed explanations, I now feel as though I have something to aim for, and how I should go about it Many thanks Peter
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: soprano saxophone - high notes
You are very welcome, hope some of what I said will work for you. Paul peterhepplewhite@... wrote: > Thankyou Paul for you detailed explanations, > I now feel as though I have something to aim for, and how I should go > about it > Many thanks > Peter > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG93s39tv/M'3541.4247512.5496808.2248467/D=groups/S05032198:HM/EXP83657840/A 61551/R=0/SIGsr5b9n1/*http://launch.yahoo.com/artist/videos.asp?artistID01301> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > >