Greetings to all!

Maybe my information will help those guys who begin refacing work. I 
am from Russia so excuse my English which I did not study. In my work 
I do not use refacing kits as they are here absolutely not exist. I 
use ordinary tools: emery paper 600 and 1200 grit in A4 format, a 
piece of glass (window pane) which I put under the emery paper, glass 
with the sizes 120 x 80 x 10 mm with strictly perpendicular sides - 
for measurements, 2 rulers graduated in mm, feelers from shop of 
autospare parts (a set of 13 plates, 0.05 - 1.00 mm), a set of drills 
1.5 - 8 mm in diameter (better with a smooth shaft surface), a desk 
lamp with good light.

The most important in a mouthpiece is an even table and 
mathematically accurate rails, then baffle and chamber volume. If 
simplified, the table gives stability in position of a reed, the 
baffle gives a timbre, the chamber allows to adjust among themselves 
registers of a saxophone, rails give very much including response in 
all registers.

I have found, that the best curve for saxophone and clarinet 
mouthpieces is the parabola. Not the circle arc, though in most cases 
the numbers are almost the same. Check it! For calculations I use my 
small program in QBasic language (from old MS-DOS package). At desire 
you can translate it to your favourite programming language and also 
change millimeters to inches if you use them.


CLS
INPUT "Tip opening (mm)"; T: INPUT "Facing length (mm)"; L
PRINT "Parabolic Curve: d = feeler thickness, M = tip-feeler 
distance": PRINT
PRINT "d(mm) M(mm)   d(mm) M(mm)   d(mm) M(mm)   d(mm) M(mm)   d(mm) M
(mm)"
c = L * L / T
FOR d = 0 TO (T + .01) STEP .05
  M = L - SQR(c * d)
  PRINT USING "##.## "; d; M; : PRINT ,
NEXT
END


Here it means:
"Tip opening" - measured on the very tip of the mouthpiece, "Facing 
length" - from the very tip of the MP up to a point where the table 
ends and the curve begins (virtual feeler 0.00 mm).

How to choose the "Facing length"? I believe, that mouthpieces at 
which Facing length is approximately equal 2/3 of reed's cut length 
have rather good balance of registers. So, for Rico Royal reeds the 
optimum facing length will be: for soprano 20 mm, for alto 24 mm, for 
tenor 28 mm (virtual feeler 0.00 mm!). But finally it depends on 
desire of the musician.

For facing measurements I use a set from 13 steel feelers: 0.05, 
0.10, 0.15, 0.20, 0.25, 0.30, 0.40, 0.50, 0.60, 0.70, 0.80, 0.90, 
1.00 mm, made in Poland, price about $1.50. Maybe it is not the best 
set, but on sale is not present anything else. With these feelers I 
measure all the curves. When the necessary feeler is thicker than 1 
mm, I put 2 or 3 plates together (it is possible to glue together).
For what are the drills? Their shafts I use for the work on rails 
(drills 7.8, 5.0, 3.5, 2.5, 1.5 mm plus feelers 1.0 and 0.5 mm). 
Certainly, it would be better to use cylindrical rods of various 
diameters if who has. So, when the table of a mouthpiece is already 
leveled, I put an emery paper on glass, then on the emery paper I put 
a drill: the greater diameter will be for processing rails at the tip 
area, smaller diameter - for the area closer to the table. On the 
shaft of the drill I put the table of mouthpiece while the side rails 
touch emery paper. Now I move the mouthpiece lengthways on emery 
paper there-here strictly perpendicularly to the drill. The table of 
mouthpiece thus slides on the drill shaft. What drill diameter should 
be used and on what distance to process various areas of the rails? 
For this purpose I have other small program. You too can easily 
calculate it, using school mathematics.

I always try to maintain a parabolic curve from the beginning up to 
the tip. I think, that any flat places, inequalities and cambers on 
rails by all means worsen certain characteristics of mouthpiece.

Sergei

Sergei:  Using the drill bits is ingenious!  A simple solution to the 
problem of "how do I get a smooth curve?"

Elegant!

Paul


Sergei Dolgishev wrote:

> Greetings to all!
>
> Maybe my information will help those guys who begin refacing work. I
> am from Russia so excuse my English which I did not study. In my work
> I do not use refacing kits as they are here absolutely not exist. I
> use ordinary tools: emery paper 600 and 1200 grit in A4 format, a
> piece of glass (window pane) which I put under the emery paper, glass
> with the sizes 120 x 80 x 10 mm with strictly perpendicular sides -
> for measurements, 2 rulers graduated in mm, feelers from shop of
> autospare parts (a set of 13 plates, 0.05 - 1.00 mm), a set of drills
> 1.5 - 8 mm in diameter (better with a smooth shaft surface), a desk
> lamp with good light.
>
> The most important in a mouthpiece is an even table and
> mathematically accurate rails, then baffle and chamber volume. If
> simplified, the table gives stability in position of a reed, the
> baffle gives a timbre, the chamber allows to adjust among themselves
> registers of a saxophone, rails give very much including response in
> all registers.
>
> I have found, that the best curve for saxophone and clarinet
> mouthpieces is the parabola. Not the circle arc, though in most cases
> the numbers are almost the same. Check it! For calculations I use my
> small program in QBasic language (from old MS-DOS package). At desire
> you can translate it to your favourite programming language and also
> change millimeters to inches if you use them.
>
>
> CLS
> INPUT "Tip opening (mm)"; T: INPUT "Facing length (mm)"; L
> PRINT "Parabolic Curve: d = feeler thickness, M = tip-feeler
> distance": PRINT
> PRINT "d(mm) M(mm)   d(mm) M(mm)   d(mm) M(mm)   d(mm) M(mm)   d(mm) M
> (mm)"
> c = L * L / T
> FOR d = 0 TO (T + .01) STEP .05
>   M = L - SQR(c * d)
>   PRINT USING "##.## "; d; M; : PRINT ,
> NEXT
> END
>
>
> Here it means:
> "Tip opening" - measured on the very tip of the mouthpiece, "Facing
> length" - from the very tip of the MP up to a point where the table
> ends and the curve begins (virtual feeler 0.00 mm).
>
> How to choose the "Facing length"? I believe, that mouthpieces at
> which Facing length is approximately equal 2/3 of reed's cut length
> have rather good balance of registers. So, for Rico Royal reeds the
> optimum facing length will be: for soprano 20 mm, for alto 24 mm, for
> tenor 28 mm (virtual feeler 0.00 mm!). But finally it depends on
> desire of the musician.
>
> For facing measurements I use a set from 13 steel feelers: 0.05,
> 0.10, 0.15, 0.20, 0.25, 0.30, 0.40, 0.50, 0.60, 0.70, 0.80, 0.90,
> 1.00 mm, made in Poland, price about $1.50. Maybe it is not the best
> set, but on sale is not present anything else. With these feelers I
> measure all the curves. When the necessary feeler is thicker than 1
> mm, I put 2 or 3 plates together (it is possible to glue together).
> For what are the drills? Their shafts I use for the work on rails
> (drills 7.8, 5.0, 3.5, 2.5, 1.5 mm plus feelers 1.0 and 0.5 mm).
> Certainly, it would be better to use cylindrical rods of various
> diameters if who has. So, when the table of a mouthpiece is already
> leveled, I put an emery paper on glass, then on the emery paper I put
> a drill: the greater diameter will be for processing rails at the tip
> area, smaller diameter - for the area closer to the table. On the
> shaft of the drill I put the table of mouthpiece while the side rails
> touch emery paper. Now I move the mouthpiece lengthways on emery
> paper there-here strictly perpendicularly to the drill. The table of
> mouthpiece thus slides on the drill shaft. What drill diameter should
> be used and on what distance to process various areas of the rails?
> For this purpose I have other small program. You too can easily
> calculate it, using school mathematics.
>
> I always try to maintain a parabolic curve from the beginning up to
> the tip. I think, that any flat places, inequalities and cambers on
> rails by all means worsen certain characteristics of mouthpiece.
>
> Sergei
>
>
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
>
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>

Sergei,  Thanks for your post.  You are very methodical in your approach.

Many of your ideas are similar to ideas posted in the past on this group. 
Did you get some tips from this group or develop them all on your own?

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--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury 
<kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> Sergei,  Thanks for your post.  You are very methodical in your 
approach.
> 
> Many of your ideas are similar to ideas posted in the past on this 
group. 
> Did you get some tips from this group or develop them all on your 
own?
> 
Thanks for your and Paul Coats' approval. The ideas are mainly from 
my own experience.

Now a question. 
Is there the STANDARD internal diameter of mouthpieces?  In 
mouthpieces I have, the differenses achieve sometimes 0.5 mm! This is 
very inconvenient: one fits hardly, another can be too loose.

Sergei

I have noticed the same, different bore diameters.  I know of no 
"standards".

Paul

Sergei Dolgishev wrote:

> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury
> <kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> > Sergei,  Thanks for your post.  You are very methodical in your
> approach.
> >
> > Many of your ideas are similar to ideas posted in the past on this
> group.
> > Did you get some tips from this group or develop them all on your
> own?
> >
> Thanks for your and Paul Coats' approval. The ideas are mainly from
> my own experience.
>
> Now a question.
> Is there the STANDARD internal diameter of mouthpieces?  In
> mouthpieces I have, the differenses achieve sometimes 0.5 mm! This is
> very inconvenient: one fits hardly, another can be too loose.
>
> Sergei
>
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/
>        
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>        
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

One of my goals is to summarize all the measurements I have into a
distribution of bore diameters.  I think there is a central tendency for
each intrument that we should endeavour to standardize on.

I have not tried to measure the taper of bores.  Quite a few are, mostly
the vintage hard rubber ones.

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