Could someone please spell out for me the meaning of the Letters used 
in the facing charts,
I beleive that M is the actual facing length.
I am not sure what R represents.
I apologies in advance for my ignorance.
I am particularly interested in facings for Soprano mpc!
Great Group, Best Regards, Peter

Which facing charts are you referring to?  Any letter designations usually
differ in meaning from manufacturer to manufacturer.

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Peter:  First off... there are NO standard facing sizes, or numbering 
system.  They just do not exist.  The most sensible I have seen is Berg 
Larsens'.  Berg Larsen uses two numbers, such as 100/2.  The 100 is 
.100" (100 thousandths) for the tip opening.  The 2 is the chamber, with 
their 3 chamber the largest, and 0 chamber the smallest and brightest 
chamber.  THIS is something you can hang your hat on.

 

For some manufacturers, M might be the facing length, or the chamber 
size (Medium).  For example, Meyers you will see marked 5M, 6M, 6S, 7S, 
etc.  The numbers are facing sizes, and the letters (S, M, L) are NOT 
the chamber size, as many assume, but the facing length.  The letters 
are for Short, Medium, Long facing lengths.

 

Supposedly, short facings help the high notes, long helps the low 
notes.  I have never found short facings helpful on high notes, but have 
found them to make the bottom end difficult.  I, and most players, 
prefer medium facings... that is, about 20-21mm for alto, 22-23 for 
tenor, 24-25 for bari sax.

 

What about "star" facings (*)?  For the old Brilhart mouthpieces, the * 
indicated a short facing.  That is, a 5 and a 5* had the same tip 
opening, but the 5* had a short facing length.

 

For Otto Link, the * facings were half sizes.  That is, a 6* was halfway 
between a 6 and a 7, and facing lengths were the same.

 

Couf... all the sopranos are * facings.  BUT, the * indicates a long 
facing... but there are no mediums... Let me explain.  The Couf soprano 
piece is the exact same mouthpiece as the Runyon Custom, BUT with a 
longer facing.  So, a Couf 7* has a .059" tip opening, just as does the 
Runyon Custom 7, but the facing is 2 mm longer.  I suppose the * was to 
denote that.

 

For Selmer... strange... they use letters, or at least did on the S-80 
and earlier mouthpieces.  A, A*, B, B*, C, C*, C**, D, E, F, G, H 
indicated tip opening sizes. 

 

For the newer S-90 series from Selmer, the implication is that the 
numbers were tip opening in metric, as is used in the Eric Brand 
system.  For example, you will see clarinet mouthpieces labeled 105, 
110, 115, 120.  These are 1.05 mm (.041"), 1.10 mm (.043"), 1.15mm 
(.045"), and 1.20mm (.047").

 

So, you see the Selmer S-90 alto sax mouthpieces, 170, 180, 190.  You 
would think this means 1.70 mm (.066"), or 1.80 mm (.071"), or 1.90 mm 
(.075").  But NOOOO!  The 170 alto mouthpiece is a microscopic .055" tip 
opening.  The 190 is .066".   Go figure.

 

For the tenor, the S-90 sizes are even more strange. 

 

Claude Lakey, you will see TWO numbers with a * in between, such as 
6*3.  I don't know, have never figured out what the second number is 
for.  I think the * is just a separator, like a hyphen.

 

For the Rousseau's, the R's indicate a different model from the NC 
mouthpieces.  R means... Rousseau.

 

Vandoren, all Soprano mouthpiece facings have and S prefix.  All alto 
sax have an A prefix, all tenor a T prefix, and all bari a B prefix.

 

Some mouthpieces, there is only one facing... the manufacturer knows 
more of what you need than you do... J&D Hite have only one facing, but 
fortunately, these are pretty good facing sizes in my opinion.  The "LT" 
or Larry Teal's have only one facing, WAY TOO SMALL.

 

Eric Brand tried to institute a 5 digit numbering system that was 
meaningful to refacers, which he hoped to standardize the system.

 

The first two digits were the facing length, as measured with the glass 
gauge and a .0015"  (0.04 mm) feeler.  Brand did not want to use half 
mm's, and use decimals.  But he needed that kind of accuracy.  So, he 
doubled the numbers.  A facing length of 22 mm would read on his glass 
gauge as "44".  A facing length of 22.5 would read simply "45".

 

The tip opening, as measured by his wand gauge, was in hundredths of 
mm's, that is, a 175 was 1.75 mm ( = .069").  Again, he used no decimals.

 

So, in the Eric Brand system an alto sax mouthpiece with a tip opening 
of .069", or 1.75 mm, and a facing length of 21 mm would be labeled 42175.

 

A tenor mouthpiece might be seen with a number such as 46220.  This 
would have a facing length of 23 mm (46/2) with a tip opening of 2.20 mm 
(.087"). 

 

Some think these 5 digit numbers are "serial numbers".  Some may be, but 
many of these old mouthpieces with 5 digits are actually the facing 
description.

 

Like Forest Gump, "Well, that's all I have to say about that."

 

Paul

 


pjhmusic2004 wrote:

> Could someone please spell out for me the meaning of the Letters used
> in the facing charts,
> I beleive that M is the actual facing length.
> I am not sure what R represents.
> I apologies in advance for my ignorance.
> I am particularly interested in facings for Soprano mpc!
> Great Group, Best Regards, Peter
>
>
>
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Thanks to Paul & Keith for the info supplied!

I need help to fully understand the Abbreviations used in the Excel 
Spreadsheets which I have found posted on our group.  These are the spreadsheets where 
you input your feeler gauge sizes and the dimensions for the facing curve is 
calculated.
Regards,
Peter

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, peterhepplewhite@a... wrote:
> I need help to fully understand the Abbreviations used in the Excel 
> Spreadsheets which I have found posted on our group.  These are the 
spreadsheets where 
> you input your feeler gauge sizes and the dimensions for the facing 
curve is 
> calculated.

Oh, that "chart".  See Message post 1453 on the Mouthpiece Work 
site.  This should answer most or all of your questions.  Otherwise, 
ask again.