This is my first posting, and I am hoping that I can get some help 
with some questions I have re mouthpiece refinements.
Please put me right if you find I am talking nonsense!!!
Question 1.
Will making small changes to the lay length and tip opening alter the 
tuning characteristics in any way?

Question 2.
Selmer S80 Soprano Mouthpiece D.
I think it would be agreed that this is a fairly "straight" 
mouthpiece to suit classical playing. What could be done to introduce 
more warmth/roundness to the tone.  My guess (but have not tried 
anything yet) would be to put some concave curve into the side walls 
and/or chamber.  I would be worried about how tuning might be 
affected.
Any help will be greatly appreciated, Best regards, Peter.

> Question 1.
> Will making small changes to the lay length and tip opening alter 
the 
> tuning characteristics in any way?

Tuning is affected directly by mouthpiece chamber volume changes.  I 
think length is also a big factor.  A long thin mouthpiece will tune 
differently than a short fat one of the same volume.  Changing a tip 
opening will not have a siginificant affect on chamber volume.

Indirectly, larger tip openings will affect intonation because of the 
interaction with your embouchure.  Control gets more sensitive to 
small embouchure changes.  Some players use a tighter embouchure on 
large tip openings just to make the notes speak.  They are closing 
off the tip opening some with their embochure.  We all do this some, 
but in extreme cases, this will throw off the intonation in the 
different octaves.  That is why the mouthpiece alone pitch exercises 
are so useful.

> 
> Question 2.
> Selmer S80 Soprano Mouthpiece D.
> I think it would be agreed that this is a fairly "straight" 
> mouthpiece to suit classical playing. What could be done to 
introduce 
> more warmth/roundness to the tone.  My guess (but have not tried 
> anything yet) would be to put some concave curve into the side 
walls 
> and/or chamber.  I would be worried about how tuning might be 
> affected.

You are on the right track.  However be warned that the smaller saxes 
are the most sensitive to chamber volume changes.  You can try your 
changes on an alto MP or larger and probably not even need to do 
anything else.  On a sop piece that plays in tune, if you take some 
material away from the side walls, you may need to add some back in 
elsewhere downstream.  Otherwise, taking material away could drive 
your palm keys to go sharp after you retune the mid range of the 
sax.  If your palm keys are flat to begin with, then taking some 
material away would help this as well as change the tone to your 
liking.

Buy a spare mouthpiece if you do not have one yet.

Just a quick note re: Q2--taking material off the baffle is going to tend to give you a rounder, mellower sound. However taking it off right behind the tip will affect the sound differently than taking it off further back. The closer to the tip the more you are going to notice the difference for a given amount of material removed IME. My experience is that the closer to the tip the more you dampen the higher partials. So if you take too much off just behind the tip you end up with a thin sound but no longer too bright. Taking material off from further back fattens the sound but retains some edge in a high baffle piece, but if you take this too far you end up with a piece that doesn't respond too well. You have to maintain a certian balance for optimum responsiveness, again in my very limited experience...

I have taken quite a bit of baffle material out of a Beechler metal alto piece and a Berg Larsen tenor without seriously affecting the intonation. I also shortened the BL a good couple of millimeteres (due to a damaged tip) and it is still as in tune as my MC Gregory big old fat sounding piece, so you do have a fair amount of leeway for the most part.

Toby
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Keith Bradbury 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 9:59 PM
  Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: MOUTHPIECE HELP



  > Question 1.
  > Will making small changes to the lay length and tip opening alter 
  the 
  > tuning characteristics in any way?

  Tuning is affected directly by mouthpiece chamber volume changes.  I 
  think length is also a big factor.  A long thin mouthpiece will tune 
  differently than a short fat one of the same volume.  Changing a tip 
  opening will not have a siginificant affect on chamber volume.

  Indirectly, larger tip openings will affect intonation because of the 
  interaction with your embouchure.  Control gets more sensitive to 
  small embouchure changes.  Some players use a tighter embouchure on 
  large tip openings just to make the notes speak.  They are closing 
  off the tip opening some with their embochure.  We all do this some, 
  but in extreme cases, this will throw off the intonation in the 
  different octaves.  That is why the mouthpiece alone pitch exercises 
  are so useful.

  > 
  > Question 2.
  > Selmer S80 Soprano Mouthpiece D.
  > I think it would be agreed that this is a fairly "straight" 
  > mouthpiece to suit classical playing. What could be done to 
  introduce 
  > more warmth/roundness to the tone.  My guess (but have not tried 
  > anything yet) would be to put some concave curve into the side 
  walls 
  > and/or chamber.  I would be worried about how tuning might be 
  > affected.

  You are on the right track.  However be warned that the smaller saxes 
  are the most sensitive to chamber volume changes.  You can try your 
  changes on an alto MP or larger and probably not even need to do 
  anything else.  On a sop piece that plays in tune, if you take some 
  material away from the side walls, you may need to add some back in 
  elsewhere downstream.  Otherwise, taking material away could drive 
  your palm keys to go sharp after you retune the mid range of the 
  sax.  If your palm keys are flat to begin with, then taking some 
  material away would help this as well as change the tone to your 
  liking.

  Buy a spare mouthpiece if you do not have one yet.



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pjhmusic2004 wrote:

> This is my first posting, and I am hoping that I can get some help
> with some questions I have re mouthpiece refinements.
> Please put me right if you find I am talking nonsense!!!
> Question 1.
> Will making small changes to the lay length and tip opening alter the
> tuning characteristics in any way?

No, unless an  extremely unsuitable reed strength was used.

>
>
> Question 2.
> Selmer S80 Soprano Mouthpiece D.
> I think it would be agreed that this is a fairly "straight"
> mouthpiece to suit classical playing. What could be done to introduce
> more warmth/roundness to the tone.  My guess (but have not tried
> anything yet) would be to put some concave curve into the side walls
> and/or chamber.  I would be worried about how tuning might be
> affected.
> Any help will be greatly appreciated, Best regards, Peter.

No, altering the sidewalls, increasing the chamber volume will adversely 
affect tuning.  Soprano sax is very sensitive to mouthpiece volume 
changes.  What WILL do the trick is to take the "roll" off the baffle, 
just behind the tip rail, making the baffle more of a straight line from 
the tip rail on back into the chamber.  That first quarter inch of 
baffle really affects the tone the most. 

 

I have done this modification to the baffle of Selmer soprano, alto, 
tenor, and bari mouthpieces to good effect for many years.

 

Paul

>
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Many thanks to
Keith Bradbury,
Toby,
Paul Coats,
For all of your advice ,
Greatly appreciated. I'm sure to have some more questions soon!