Mouthpiece Work / Re: Plating Companies? RE: [MouthpieceWork] Fixing L.A. Sax silver
FROM: reidalf (Alf Reid (AST VDB))
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies? RE: [MouthpieceWork] Fixing L.A. Sax silver
Peter
Sorry I live in AFRICA .
I have heard feedback from people who have used Anderson for saxophones. Just make sure they understand that
" NO BUFFING " means " ABSOLUTELY NO BUFFING " .
Silverplating is not a big deal. The coating spreads well , needs minimum polishing .
In the past I did my own silver plating with good results. Since my volume was to low I stopped.
Alf
-----Original Message-----
From: Rawlings, Peter [mailto:Peter.Rawlings@...]
Sent: 10 October 2003 18:30
To: 'MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: Plating Companies? RE: [MouthpieceWork] Fixing L.A. Sax silver plated soprano mouthpiece
All,
I'm wondering who(m) people have used as plating companies?
I know of Anderson plating - any others? Specifically, that have
experience plating mouthpieces?
Thanks
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Alf Reid (AST VDB) [mailto:alf.reid@...]
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 5:12 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] Fixing L.A. Sax silver plated soprano mouthpiece
I would only use spot plating on the table area , when the object is to prevent oxidation. If areas on the rails lacks
plating it is best to get the facing curve up to specification and replate. I would not remove any silverplating before
replating if the curve is correct. After applying about 20 microns of silver the Mouthpiece and curve can be lightly polished
by hand. Then the curve should be checked.
Make the plating company understand that NO BUFFING should be done at any stage.
If the plating was done without buffing , at normal (or low) current density , with the correct size anode , the facing curve
should need no work.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Lloyd [mailto:jg_lloyd@...]
Sent: 09 October 2003 16:19
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Fixing L.A. Sax silver plated soprano mouthpiece
Thanks, Toby. That's what I was afraid of. Can these
little areas be spot-plated or do I need to take the
silver off the entire table and facing? I'd surely
ruin the mouthpiece if I attempted that. I've not had
great success at refacing recently.
Jon
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FROM: jgerberza (jgerberza)
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies? RE: [MouthpieceWork] Fixing L.A. Sax silver
I say, and I'm quite serious, STAY AWAY FROM JEWELERS! I have seen many mouthpieces ruined by jewelers that tried replating. Alf was with me once and saw Lional Kielly's Florida Link that was buffed like it was going out of fasion. Last week I did some work on Mike Rossi's Link, also buffed before gold plating - siderails and tip is ROUND = leaking. You CAN achieve perfectly even plating 95% of the times - using tank plating. For this you need to experiment a lot to find the tweak. The piece need to be in a certain direction towards the origin of the current. I seldom need to make adjustments after plating, but it took a long time to get the secret. I currently ask $55 for plating + $85 for the reface. This ensures a great playing piece with excellent plating that's even and that will last. I use a plater in Port Elizabeth, but all polishing is done by me and by hand. Best JG www.jgerber.com --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Alf Reid (AST VDB)" <alf.reid@a...> wrote: > > Peter > Sorry I live in AFRICA . > I have heard feedback from people who have used Anderson for saxophones. Just make sure they understand that > " NO BUFFING " means " ABSOLUTELY NO BUFFING " . > Silverplating is not a big deal. The coating spreads well , needs minimum polishing . > In the past I did my own silver plating with good results. Since my volume was to low I stopped. > > Alf > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rawlings, Peter [mailto:Peter.Rawlings@a...] > Sent: 10 October 2003 18:30 > To: 'MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: Plating Companies? RE: [MouthpieceWork] Fixing L.A. Sax silver plated soprano mouthpiece > > > All, > > I'm wondering who(m) people have used as plating companies? > I know of Anderson plating - any others? Specifically, that have > experience plating mouthpieces? > > Thanks > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alf Reid (AST VDB) [mailto:alf.reid@a...] > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 5:12 AM > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] Fixing L.A. Sax silver plated soprano mouthpiece > > > I would only use spot plating on the table area , when the object is to prevent oxidation. If areas on the rails lacks > plating it is best to get the facing curve up to specification and replate. I would not remove any silverplating before > replating if the curve is correct. After applying about 20 microns of silver the Mouthpiece and curve can be lightly polished > by hand. Then the curve should be checked. > Make the plating company understand that NO BUFFING should be done at any stage. > If the plating was done without buffing , at normal (or low) current density , with the correct size anode , the facing curve > should need no work. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Lloyd [mailto:jg_lloyd@s...] > Sent: 09 October 2003 16:19 > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Fixing L.A. Sax silver plated soprano mouthpiece > > > Thanks, Toby. That's what I was afraid of. Can these > little areas be spot-plated or do I need to take the > silver off the entire table and facing? I'd surely > ruin the mouthpiece if I attempted that. I've not had > great success at refacing recently. > > Jon > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . > > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > "This information is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and > > may contain private, confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material and may be subject > > to confidentiality agreements. > > > > Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or any other use of or taking of any action in > > reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient, > > is prohibited. > > > > If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all > > storage media. > > > > The company is neither liable for proper, complete transmission of the information contained > > in this communication, any delay in its receipt or that the mail is virus-free" > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M%1812.4024216.5238180.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1 705032198:HM/A54451/R=0/SIGtmlldst/*http://www.netflix.com/Defa ult?mqso`178323&partid@24216> click here > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l? M%1812.4024216.5238180.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A54451/randV 2419860> > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 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FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies? RE: [MouthpieceWork] Fixing L.A. Sax silver
jgerberza wrote: > I say, and I'm quite serious, STAY AWAY FROM JEWELERS! > > I have seen many mouthpieces ruined by jewelers that tried > replating. Alf was with me once and saw Lional Kielly's Florida Link > that was buffed like it was going out of fasion. > > Last week I did some work on Mike Rossi's Link, also buffed before > gold plating - siderails and tip is ROUND = leaking. > > You CAN achieve perfectly even plating 95% of the times - using tank > plating. For this you need to experiment a lot to find the tweak. > The piece need to be in a certain direction towards the origin of > the current. There are descriptions of how to position the object to be plated vs anode shape and position on Caswell's site. http://www.caswellplating.com/movies/index.html Tutorial 4 - Understanding Anode Placement <http://www.caswellplating.com/movies/index.html#> (275kb) Paul
FROM: tmugwump (Thaddeus Mugwump)
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies?
>>I say, and I'm quite serious, STAY AWAY FROM JEWELERS! I have seen many mouthpieces ruined by jewelers that tried replating<< Uh... I don't know what physical laws are suspended where you live, but where I live, in the plating process the dispersion of silver, gold, or rhodium is even across the substrate.If you start out with rounded rails, you'll end up with rounded rails. You're suggesting that the immersion plating process results in uneven plating. This just doesn't happen. You can spot plate and build up areas. Perhaps that's the process you're familiar with. I've photographed extremely fine, plated Edwardian era filigree brooches and plated mesh which was so fine one would swear it was woven cloth. How can this happen? It can happen because the process takes place on the atomic level. I suspect that the jewelers whose work you've seen are in a completely different market from those whose work I've photographed. My accounts compete with Tiffany, not Bling Bling n Things.
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies?
No, jewelers will buff the mouthpiece before plating and round the rails in the buffing process. Paul Thaddeus Mugwump wrote: > >>I say, and I'm quite serious, STAY AWAY FROM JEWELERS! > > I have seen many mouthpieces ruined by jewelers that tried > replating<< > > > > Uh... I don't know what physical laws are suspended where you live, > but where I live, in the plating process the dispersion of silver, > gold, or rhodium is even across the substrate.If you start out with > rounded rails, you'll end up with rounded rails. You're suggesting > that the immersion plating process results in uneven plating. This > just doesn't happen. You can spot plate and build up areas. Perhaps > that's the process you're familiar with. > > I've photographed extremely fine, plated Edwardian era filigree > brooches and plated mesh which was so fine one would swear it was > woven cloth. How can this happen? It can happen because the process > takes place on the atomic level. > > I suspect that the jewelers whose work you've seen are in a completely > different market from those whose work I've photographed. My accounts > compete with Tiffany, not Bling Bling n Things. > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M%9395.3614674.4902533.1261774/D=egroupweb/S05032198:HM/A24963/R=0/SIGo885gmo/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?campU6&lineid614674&prop=egroupweb&pos=HM> > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
FROM: tmugwump (Thaddeus Mugwump)
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies?
Yes, jewelers will ruin your mouthpiece. I lied. Especially stay away from the guys who have thirty or more years' experience at plating. They're the absolute worst. Voodoo charms anyone?
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies?
A "Voodoo charm" is a "Mojo" A "Gris-gris" (pronounced gree-gree) is a "spell." Paul Thaddeus Mugwump wrote: > Yes, jewelers will ruin your mouthpiece. I lied. > > Especially stay away from the guys who have thirty or more years' > experience at plating. They're the absolute worst. > > Voodoo charms anyone? > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M4081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egroupweb/S05032198:HM/A32161/R=0/SIGp5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code0509&media=atkins> > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
FROM: jgerberza (jgerberza)
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies?
I theory we think that plating will be even all over the object, but this isn't true. Experience has shown me (using tank plating) that the actual deposit will be more on large flat surfaces of the mouthpiece than on thin rails and corners. Measuring the piece afterwards will also give away facing changes. I specially sanded some pieces plated down to check for this and on a sax mpc. plating is a whole lot thicker on the body than on the small areas like rails and sharp corners. To get perfectly even plating on the rails and table (which is most important) you have to position the mouthpiece in a very specific way when lowering it into the tank. This of course all depends on have accurately each layer is (first I flash dip it in copper, then 3 min nickle and 15 min silver) Now this is done is a 200litre nickle tank and 100 litre silver tank - I have not done brush plating yet. Best JG --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Paul Coats <tenorman@t...> wrote: > A "Voodoo charm" is a "Mojo" > > A "Gris-gris" (pronounced gree-gree) is a "spell." > > Paul > > Thaddeus Mugwump wrote: > > > Yes, jewelers will ruin your mouthpiece. I lied. > > > > Especially stay away from the guys who have thirty or more years' > > experience at plating. They're the absolute worst. > > > > Voodoo charms anyone? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M4081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1 705032198:HM/A32161/R=0/SIGp5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start .cfm?code0509&media=atkins> > > > > > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see > > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Brush Plating
Brush plating goes on so thin, it does not seem to effect the dimensions of the piece. It also does not last long on high wear areas (rails). Corners wear off faster too. Perhaps the plating is thinner there and the edges get more wear. This has been my experiance so far. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com
FROM: tmugwump (Thaddeus Mugwump)
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies?
>>A "Voodoo charm" is a "Mojo" A "Gris-gris" (pronounced gree-gree) is a "spell."<< Yeah. I know. I lived in New Orleans for over twenty-five years: Old Algiers; Frenchman Street, Esplanade Avenue; Gretna/Terrytown. Attended OP Walker HS, UNO and Loyola. Tutored by Alvin Battiste back when NOCCA was still working out of PGT Beauregard High School and (unofficially) Lu and Charlie's Bar on N. Rampart. Wasn't sure if the rest of the readership would know those technical terms. Gonna send you a silver plated cowan, Paul. (Also spelled "cowen" and "coin," depending upon which end of St. Bernard Avenue you buy your local delicacies on). I don't think the cowan is gonna be too happy about it, though. I knew Al Scramuzza before he carried a gun.<g>
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies?
Thaddeus Mugwump wrote: > >>A "Voodoo charm" is a "Mojo" > > A "Gris-gris" (pronounced gree-gree) is a "spell."<< > > Yeah. I know. I lived in New Orleans for over twenty-five years: Old > Algiers; Frenchman Street, Esplanade Avenue; Gretna/Terrytown. > Attended OP Walker HS, UNO and Loyola. Tutored by Alvin Battiste back > when NOCCA was still working out of PGT Beauregard High School and > (unofficially) Lu and Charlie's Bar on N. Rampart. > > Wasn't sure if the rest of the readership would know those technical > terms. > > Gonna send you a silver plated cowan, Paul. (Also spelled "cowen" > and "coin," depending upon which end of St. Bernard Avenue you > buy your local delicacies on). I don't think the cowan is gonna be too > happy about it, though. I have to ask about this in private... there are several translations of this word. > > I knew Al Scramuzza before he carried a gun.<g> Hah!!! The King of Seafood City! Paul > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M4081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egroupweb/S05032198:HM/A32163/R=0/SIGn0nglqg/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code0510&media=zone> > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies?
Thaddeus Mugwump wrote: > > > Yeah. I know. I lived in New Orleans for over twenty-five years: Old > Algiers; Frenchman Street, Esplanade Avenue; Gretna/Terrytown. > Attended OP Walker HS, UNO and Loyola. Tutored by Alvin Battiste back > when NOCCA was still working out of PGT Beauregard High School and > (unofficially) Lu and Charlie's Bar on N. Rampart. > For those who are unfamiliar, NOCCA is New Orleans Center for the Creative Arts, a school where young musicians are taugth by some very fine musicians indeed! I heard Alvin Battiste (legendary New Orleans clarinetist) with his quartet at a high school jazz festival a few years ago. He was was jazzin' along when I realized he was going right down the page, line after line, of the Klose. Paul
FROM: tmugwump (Thaddeus Mugwump)
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies?
200 and 100 liter tanks!? Whoa. In truth, my education in the plating process began when this thread began. I have access to jewelers who do this work on a regular basis and who do contract work for other jewelers, so I started asking questions and watching last week after a shoot. (I photograph in-store because I really don't feel like transporting single pieces of jewelry that cost more than everything I own combined. The tanks that the jewelers I know use much smaller tanks (probably 1 liters and four liters--- I may be off by a liter or two). What I am seeing being plated are very intricately tooled rings and bracelets (designed and created in-house) as well as very plain bangle-type bracelets. If you're working with 200 and 100 liter tanks, you're plating more than mouthpieces, I suspect. You must plate whole horns and automobile bumpers. You've got a whole lot more going on in your tanks than a jeweler would have going on in his tanks, and a whole lot more invested in equipment to control the variables (e.g., recovery systems and the like). Something which hadn't occurred to me is this: when you use a larger tank, are you likely to have a more or less "accurate" or even distribution of the plating material than if you were to use a smaller tank? (If you use only these larger tanks, you might not know).
FROM: tmugwump (Thaddeus Mugwump)
SUBJECT: Re: Plating Companies?
Now I'm kinda scared about sending folks to the jeweler for replating. Lord help me. As I type, a friend's Link is in the jeweler's tank. I got a call from the jeweler telling me that someone came in and dropped it off and gave my name as a reference. Luckily, the guy who is doing the plating understands the issues. He said, "Keep your shirt on. Piece of cake." If those don't sound like famous last words...