Hi all,

I'm working on a Meyer Tenor piece with uneven rails. In fact, the 
uneven-ness extends all the way to the table. (This piece was 
terrible!)

I am amazed at the difference from just flattening the table and 
balancing the rails. The recent discussion about "flating" the table 
came in handy - I've been holding the mouthpiece away from me, and 
drawing the piece towards me over 220, 360, 400 and 600 paper with 
excellent results!

As I was working on the rails - trying to even them up, I found that 
I was trying to apply slight pressure to the side that was higher - 
to remove material from this side - and trying NOT to remove much 
material from the other side.

Then it occured to me that - by doing so - I might be removing 
material as a slight angle by putting (slight) pressure on one side 
of the mouthpiece.

So I tried a different technique to prevent this: I started drawing 
the mouthpiece down the edge of the sandpaper, so that only one rail 
was on the sand paper. This way, I could keep the mouthpiece flat on 
my glass plate while drawing it towards me, but material is only 
removed from ONE of the rails.

Any thoughts? Any one else have any tips or techniques for balancing 
uneven rails?

Thanks, guys - this group is great! I, too, am having fun with this - 
it's addicting!! I find myself staying up late at night down in my 
basement measuring and tinkering with the proverbial "drawer full of 
mouthpieces" that every sax player seems to collect over the years.

Thanks,
Pete

Add this to your bag of tricks:  When you want to remove material from one
rail and not the other, flip a piece of sandpaper upside down next to the
paper you are using.  Stroke one rail on each piece.

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Hi Keith,

Doesn't this create somekind of unevenness in the table? FWIW I have found
that by holding the mpc flat and putting more pressure on one side it very
definitely takes more material off the side with the pressure and the table
remains flat. Of course this does mean that material is still being taken
off the other side as well. Perhaps your method works well when one is
working with hard rubber (as opposed to metal) mpcs and doing finishing work
?

Toby
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@...>
To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Technique for uneven rails?


> Add this to your bag of tricks:  When you want to remove material from one
> rail and not the other, flip a piece of sandpaper upside down next to the
> paper you are using.  Stroke one rail on each piece.
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the
Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
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>
>
>

Keith,

Brilliant! :-) Thanks for the tip!

-Pete

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury 
<kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> Add this to your bag of tricks:  When you want to remove material 
from one
> rail and not the other, flip a piece of sandpaper upside down next 
to the
> paper you are using.  Stroke one rail on each piece.
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

The "one up - one down" sandpaper suggestion was for evening rails only,
which was the subject at hand.  The table should already be flat before you
work on the rails.  Then the table should not be stroked anymore (unless
you mess up).

__________________________________
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Pete:  When you want to remove material from only one rail, and put the
sandpaper only under one side, you make a slight side-to-side angle on
the rail� BUT you have the right idea.  Here is a simple solution.  Get
a SECOND piece of the same sandpaper, and lay it beside the paper you
will cut with, grit side up.  Now you can apply even pressure in the
middle of the mouthpiece, and remove material from only one rail.  MAKE
SURE you have the grit side up paper on the correct side!  It is easy to
look at the mouthpiece, then turn it over and cut on the wrong rail.

We keep saying sandpaper� what we want to use is silicon carbide paper.
It cuts well, and has more consistent grit size than ordinary sandpaper.

Also, I recommend using 800 grit for this fine operation, rather than
the usual 600 grit.

Wipe clean and measure often.

Paul


Peter Rawlings wrote:

>  Hi all,
>
> I'm working on a Meyer Tenor piece with uneven rails. In fact, the
> uneven-ness extends all the way to the table. (This piece was
> terrible!)
>
> I am amazed at the difference from just flattening the table and
> balancing the rails. The recent discussion about "flating" the table
> came in handy - I've been holding the mouthpiece away from me, and
> drawing the piece towards me over 220, 360, 400 and 600 paper with
> excellent results!
>
> As I was working on the rails - trying to even them up, I found that
> I was trying to apply slight pressure to the side that was higher -
> to remove material from this side - and trying NOT to remove much
> material from the other side.
>
> Then it occured to me that - by doing so - I might be removing
> material as a slight angle by putting (slight) pressure on one side
> of the mouthpiece.
>
> So I tried a different technique to prevent this: I started drawing
> the mouthpiece down the edge of the sandpaper, so that only one rail
> was on the sand paper. This way, I could keep the mouthpiece flat on
> my glass plate while drawing it towards me, but material is only
> removed from ONE of the rails.
>
> Any thoughts? Any one else have any tips or techniques for balancing
> uneven rails?
>
> Thanks, guys - this group is great! I, too, am having fun with this -
> it's addicting!! I find myself staying up late at night down in my
> basement measuring and tinkering with the proverbial "drawer full of
> mouthpieces" that every sax player seems to collect over the years.
>
> Thanks,
> Pete
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT
                         [click here]

>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.

Thanks, Paul,

You're right - I was concerned that putting pressure on one side of the mouthpiece would create a side-to-side angle. So, I used the edge of the paper. But, as you noted, that will also create a slight side-to-side angle, the other way.

Keith made the same suggestion - to put another piece of paper, grit side down,
next to the cutting paper. Then, as you said, the mouthpiece will be level.

And you're right, it's easy to look at the mouthpiece, turn it over and cut
the wrong side - I've done it several times!! :-)

I have been using silicon carbide paper, as you suggested - but saying
"sandpaper" as a shorthand - fewer characters to type. (Tho, I guess we
could type "sc paper"...)

Thanks again for your excellent suggestions.

-Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Coats [mailto:tenorman@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:07 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Technique for uneven rails?


Pete:  When you want to remove material from only one rail, and put the
sandpaper only under one side, you make a slight side-to-side angle on
the rail... BUT you have the right idea.  Here is a simple solution.  Get
a SECOND piece of the same sandpaper, and lay it beside the paper you
will cut with, grit side up.  Now you can apply even pressure in the
middle of the mouthpiece, and remove material from only one rail.  MAKE
SURE you have the grit side up paper on the correct side!  It is easy to
look at the mouthpiece, then turn it over and cut on the wrong rail.

We keep saying sandpaper... what we want to use is silicon carbide paper.
It cuts well, and has more consistent grit size than ordinary sandpaper.

Also, I recommend using 800 grit for this fine operation, rather than
the usual 600 grit.

Wipe clean and measure often.

Paul


Peter Rawlings wrote:

>  Hi all,
>
> I'm working on a Meyer Tenor piece with uneven rails. In fact, the
> uneven-ness extends all the way to the table. (This piece was
> terrible!)
>
> I am amazed at the difference from just flattening the table and
> balancing the rails. The recent discussion about "flating" the table
> came in handy - I've been holding the mouthpiece away from me, and
> drawing the piece towards me over 220, 360, 400 and 600 paper with
> excellent results!
>
> As I was working on the rails - trying to even them up, I found that
> I was trying to apply slight pressure to the side that was higher -
> to remove material from this side - and trying NOT to remove much
> material from the other side.
>
> Then it occured to me that - by doing so - I might be removing
> material as a slight angle by putting (slight) pressure on one side
> of the mouthpiece.
>
> So I tried a different technique to prevent this: I started drawing
> the mouthpiece down the edge of the sandpaper, so that only one rail
> was on the sand paper. This way, I could keep the mouthpiece flat on
> my glass plate while drawing it towards me, but material is only
> removed from ONE of the rails.
>
> Any thoughts? Any one else have any tips or techniques for balancing
> uneven rails?
>
> Thanks, guys - this group is great! I, too, am having fun with this -
> it's addicting!! I find myself staying up late at night down in my
> basement measuring and tinkering with the proverbial "drawer full of
> mouthpieces" that every sax player seems to collect over the years.
>
> Thanks,
> Pete
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT
                         [click here]

>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.

This is the method I use for evening rails.  The table is not touched,
only the rails.

Toby wrote:

>  Hi Keith,
>
> Doesn't this create somekind of unevenness in the table? FWIW I have
> found
> that by holding the mpc flat and putting more pressure on one side it
> very
> definitely takes more material off the side with the pressure and the
> table
> remains flat. Of course this does mean that material is still being
> taken
> off the other side as well. Perhaps your method works well when one is
>
> working with hard rubber (as opposed to metal) mpcs and doing
> finishing work
> ?
>
> Toby
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@...>
> To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 5:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Technique for uneven rails?
>
>
> > Add this to your bag of tricks:  When you want to remove material
> from one
> > rail and not the other, flip a piece of sandpaper upside down next
> to the
> > paper you are using.  Stroke one rail on each piece.
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to
> see the
> Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> >
> > To see and modify your groups, go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT
                         [click here]

>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.

Correct, I was asking about working on uneven rails only.

THanks Paul & Keith.

This leads me to a closely related issue: balancing an uneven facing lenght.
IOW, balancing the rails RIGHT at the point where the facing curve begins
 - I found that it is a very delicate operation to remove material only from
one rail right at the beginning of the facing curve - without removing any
material from the table.

Here's what I've been doing: I lay 2 pieces of "sand"paper side by side,
(one wide grit up, the other grit down). I hold the mouthpiece on the paper
with the table flat on the paper, tip pointing away from me. 

Then I lightly draw the piece towards me and at the same time, start to lift
up the heel of the piece, attempting to remove only the slightest bit of
material
from the rail only (not the table) at the point that the facing curve
begins.

As I said, a very tricky, and delicate, operation.

Any one else have any suggestions, tips, tricks - for doing the above?

Thanks again,
Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Coats [mailto:tenorman@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:30 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Technique for uneven rails?


This is the method I use for evening rails.  The table is not touched,
only the rails.

Toby wrote:

>  Hi Keith,
>
> Doesn't this create somekind of unevenness in the table? FWIW I have
> found
> that by holding the mpc flat and putting more pressure on one side it
> very
> definitely takes more material off the side with the pressure and the
> table
> remains flat. Of course this does mean that material is still being
> taken
> off the other side as well. Perhaps your method works well when one is
>
> working with hard rubber (as opposed to metal) mpcs and doing
> finishing work
> ?
>
> Toby
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@...>
> To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 5:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Technique for uneven rails?
>
>
> > Add this to your bag of tricks:  When you want to remove material
> from one
> > rail and not the other, flip a piece of sandpaper upside down next
> to the
> > paper you are using.  Stroke one rail on each piece.
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to
> see the
> Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> >
> > To see and modify your groups, go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT
                         [click here]

>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.

For the .0015" reading (the facing length), I try to rough some of it in
early, but I save the final procedure to last.  It is too easy to mess it
up if you establish it first.

I'll usually uses 1000 and 1500 grit paper for this, as well as final rail
curve tweeking.  I like to sneak up on the goal numbers.  This is
ultimately faster than cutting on coarser grits, and then overshooting, and
having to recut the table and the rest of the facing.

I do the final adjustment for the .0015" numbers with the heel of the table
slightly off the paper before I stroke.  This creates a very slight kink
where the facing meets the table.  For final polishing, I turn some paper
over and stroke it a few times starting with the table flat on the paper
for part of the stroke, then I gradually tilt it to polish the entire
facing all the way to the tip.  The little kink at the table goes usually
goes away.  If not (like on hard metals), I use the 1000 and 1500 grit
paper for final polishing.


__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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