My business was scammed for about $11,000 (that's eleven LARGE!!) and a
silver plated Selmer alto on some international sales. The credit cards
used were all approved, and the addresses used for shipment were
verified through the credit card system. We thought we had taken every
reasonable precaution. It seems that on non-USA transactions, the
address verification feature does not work: you could put in random
numbers and it would still approve the card if the credit line was
available. I am now requiring all non-USA buyers to pay via Bank Wire
only. There was a similar attempt using PayPal, but fortunately it was
caught before the horn was shipped. You have been warned!
 
I want to emphasize that these transactions looked absolutely like any
other, and were approved through my credit card processor. There was no
indication that anything was amiss. The first notice that we got was
when the credit card company charged back the sales (there were three of
them, all in one month, all to different people) to my checking account
(which they very kindly did without telling me first!) and then about
ten days later sent me the stolen card reports. I guess my advice is
that if you don't know your customer, get your money in a way that you
can be certain that the transaction is genuine.  BTW, my credit card
company tells me that they can charge back sales anytime and with no
notice to me for 180 days after the initial transaction, and that
American Express cards can be charged back if the customer  does not pay
American Express!
 
I would be interested in any advice on additional security measures we
could take to avoid this type situation. If you don't know when the
money from credit card sales actually becomes yours, it might be a good
idea to call your processor.
 
STEVE  GOODSON 
 <http://www.saxgourmet.com> www.saxgourmet.com 
STRICTLY by appointment only 
Tues - Thurs 10:00AM - 3:00PM 
  
Steve uses and endorses UNISON saxophones; 
RUNYON mouthpieces; MASTERPIECE necks; 
PHAT reeds; and MUSIC MEDIC repair kits. 
  
 

Steve,
 
My wife works for a high-end jewelry store and the store regularly makes individual sales of $10,000.00 and up (there have been pieces sold which went for $250,000.00). My wife has to fool with these credit card companies whenever there's a ripoff. They will not accept responsibility unless you stand up and bark. You don't need a lawyer to do this for you.
 
It is the responsibility of the issuing credit card company to verify the legitimacy of the card number and the credit availability. As long as you follow protocol, you are protected from liability. Though the issuing credit card charged the bad charge back to you, the credit card company is responsible for the loss. You did everything you were supposed to do. 
 
You got verification, then you honored your obligation to make good on your offer PREDICATED UPON THE ASSURANCE OF THE ISSUING CREDIT CARD COMPANY THAT THE CARD WAS VALID.
 
Steve, get on the phone and scream at the credit card company. Be firm with them, and get everyone's name. Call them as often as you think of it. 
 
You don't have to accept this. Just as the person from whom the card is stolen is free of liability, the merchant has the same insurance--- regardless of what the credit card company says and regardless of what your agreement may say. Just because something appears on a piece of paper does not mean that it's legal.
 
If someone gives you a credit card number over the phone, ask them to scan and email you a copy of the card and their drivers' license. 
 
ONE MORE RIPOFF SCHEME
 
My wife got a very legitimate cashier's check from the bank that manages her own company's money. My wife doesn't trust anyone. She called the bank to verify that the cashier's check was valid. She was told yes after she gave all the numbers, etc.
 
Bingo. It turned out that the cashier's check supposedly issued by the bank was counterfeit--- done on a home printer which produced a metallic mark with a 3-D hologram. The bank tried to wiggle out of it because the check was counterfeit. My wife had a record of the call to the bank, the person to whom she spoke, the time, date, etc.. The bank had to eat it.
 
It's a pain in the ass, huh? I used to do wedding photography and I refused to get involved with the credit card companies. I lost business because of this, but I also spared myself the headaches of backcharges. 
 
I hope your business is doing well. I'm from new Orleans and i know how cheap New Orleanians are. They don't want to pay for anything. I remember back in the mid to late '70's when the Neville Brothers couldn't draw a crowd at Tipitina's because they charged $3.00 at the door. If it was FREE, the place was packed.
 
No need to respond. You're busy.
 
Mike Fulton
(Bloodog on SOTW)



 

Hi Steve,

Read your email about the fraud.....here's one that smells fishy to me.  Check out the email address.............ilegalbeul......huh?  Here's the reply I sent to him....what do you think?

Question from:           ilegalbeul
Title of item:           Pro Quality  Cannonball Bari Low "A"
Seller:                  4012freddy
Starts:                  Jun-17-03 16:20:13 PDT
Ends:                    Jun-24-03 16:20:13 PDT
Price:                   Starts at $2,999.99
To view the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item%39642207




do you take credit card directly as payment method ? I have Visa and Mastercard, please let me know which one you accepted.can you send it to overseas address? I should be pleased to receipt your prompt reply.
--------------------

Sorry,

I'm just a musician.  I have no way of accepting a credit card.  You must send a money order, or cashier's check.  Also, you know that the postage, handling and insurance could be as much as $200.  This bari weighs 40 pounds, plus whatever the box will weigh.  It could cost as much as $200.

So let me know who you are, where you are, and how you want to pay for it.

Thanks for the inquiry.  This is a wonderful baritone sax, and it's a good price for it.  Even discounted, they sell for $4500.

Fred

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: STEVE GOODSON 
  To: selmervi@... 
  Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 5:53 AM
  Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Ebay Scam


  My business was scammed for about $11,000 (that's eleven LARGE!!) and a silver plated Selmer alto on some international sales. The credit cards used were all approved, and the addresses used for shipment were verified through the credit card system. We thought we had taken every reasonable precaution. It seems that on non-USA transactions, the address verification feature does not work: you could put in random numbers and it would still approve the card if the credit line was available. I am now requiring all non-USA buyers to pay via Bank Wire only. There was a similar attempt using PayPal, but fortunately it was caught before the horn was shipped. You have been warned!

   

  I want to emphasize that these transactions looked absolutely like any other, and were approved through my credit card processor. There was no indication that anything was amiss. The first notice that we got was when the credit card company charged back the sales (there were three of them, all in one month, all to different people) to my checking account (which they very kindly did without telling me first!) and then about ten days later sent me the stolen card reports. I guess my advice is that if you don't know your customer, get your money in a way that you can be certain that the transaction is genuine.  BTW, my credit card company tells me that they can charge back sales anytime and with no notice to me for 180 days after the initial transaction, and that American Express cards can be charged back if the customer  does not pay American Express!

   

  I would be interested in any advice on additional security measures we could take to avoid this type situation. If you don't know when the money from credit card sales actually becomes yours, it might be a good idea to call your processor.

   

  STEVE  GOODSON 
  www.saxgourmet.com 
  STRICTLY by appointment only 
  Tues - Thurs 10:00AM - 3:00PM 
    
  Steve uses and endorses UNISON saxophones; 
  RUNYON mouthpieces; MASTERPIECE necks; 
  PHAT reeds; and MUSIC MEDIC repair kits. 
    

   


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