All I have right now in the way of tools is a set of Craftsman 
feeler gauges (.150mm to .900mm) and a flat piece of glass. With 
these simple tools, what things can I do to determine if a 
mouthpiece has any problems (flat table, even rails, etc.)? 

I've been through tough times finding a soprano mouthpiece I want to 
play. For about 10 years, I played on Dukoff D8's on SAT as my main 
mouthpieces. After a 10 year break from soprano, I've tried to get 
back to my original setup but I've been through 3 D8's on soprano 
that had defects (uneven tips, problems with chirping, etc.).

The latest D8 seemed to play well for me when I first got it but I 
realized on a gig that it is difficult to play softly. I ended up 
removing a very small amount of baffle just behind the tip (like 
several of you here have suggested) and then gave it a few light 
pulls across the sandpaper to help define the tip rail. Now it seems 
to fight me even more and I think I may have messed up the rails. 
What should I look for? TIA!

I'm not the pro that some of the guys here are, but I'll offer a few tips that work for me with the tools that you mention.

First you might want to check Santy Runyon's page about facing curves. Some adjustments in that area might help your pp problem. It's on the Mpc group site. Another possibility is that your tip opening is just too wide. IME a smaller tip opening and a harder reed makes piano playing easier.

Here's a question: is the tip rail itself flat or does it curve? The trick is to keep an even curve from the rail break up to the tip rail, but not to roll up the tip rail itself. Check to see if the curve of the rails is even by rolling the mpc face up under a light and watching the reflection. You shouldn't see any unevennesses and the width of the light reflection should be even from the break up to the tip. The tip rail itself shouldn't show any curvature.

To check the evenness of the side rails just insert successive feeler gauges lightly with the mpc face down on the glass. Don't force the feeler gauges, just slide them up until they stop with even pressure on both sides. They should be perpendicular to the mpc itself. If they are not it indicates that one rail is higher than the other. They should all be perpendicular from the break to the tip.

But if ypou're not having problems with chirps it would be a fair bet that the rails themselves are pretty much OK. Again IME unevennesses in the side rails don't so much change the response of the mpc as make it chirpy. Of course if the unevenness of the side rails translate into an angled tip rail then you might see some response problems as well. My hunch is that your tip rail has a curve. What I do is to sand the rails by starting from the mpc lying flat on the sandpaper facing away from me, then pulling while rotating the mpc evenly towards the tip just until I feel the tip make contact--then holding that angle and completing the stroke. Don't continue rotating the mpc (by lifting the back) after you touch the tip rail to the sandpaper or you will create that curved tip rail. If you have a curved tip rail in effect the tip no longer makes contact, but the area behind the tip does, which increases resistance. 

I'll let some of the more experienced guys like Keith and Paul expand on that and hopefully correct me if I'm doing that wrong.

Toby
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: stencilmann 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 8:06 AM
  Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Checking a mouthpiece


  All I have right now in the way of tools is a set of Craftsman 
  feeler gauges (.150mm to .900mm) and a flat piece of glass. With 
  these simple tools, what things can I do to determine if a 
  mouthpiece has any problems (flat table, even rails, etc.)? 

  I've been through tough times finding a soprano mouthpiece I want to 
  play. For about 10 years, I played on Dukoff D8's on SAT as my main 
  mouthpieces. After a 10 year break from soprano, I've tried to get 
  back to my original setup but I've been through 3 D8's on soprano 
  that had defects (uneven tips, problems with chirping, etc.).

  The latest D8 seemed to play well for me when I first got it but I 
  realized on a gig that it is difficult to play softly. I ended up 
  removing a very small amount of baffle just behind the tip (like 
  several of you here have suggested) and then gave it a few light 
  pulls across the sandpaper to help define the tip rail. Now it seems 
  to fight me even more and I think I may have messed up the rails. 
  What should I look for? TIA!


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
       
       

  Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

  Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

  To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 

The way that Toby suggests you check out your piece is about the best 
you can do with what you have.  But you will have a greater chance of 
success by obtaining the proper gages and tools.  This work is 
difficult enough with the proper equipment.  Its not a huge 
investment.  Only about the cost of 1-2 mouthpieces.  

Toby's description of observing the tip rail curve using light 
reflection is good.  I do this too.  But I usually put in a slight 
curve in the tip rail all the way to the tip.  I find even a little 
makes a piece better for altissimo response.

If the rails are uneven and do not have a proper gentle curve to 
them, the piece will play with additional resistance.  If it is too 
open and the reeds are hard it will be resistant.  If the tip rail is 
crooked it adds to the resistance.  To play a resistant piece, you 
blow with more pressure.  This is the fuel for chirps.  Plus if the 
tip is uneven and the baffle is high near the tip, I think it allows 
the very tip of the reed to vibrate at the high frequencies we call 
chirps or squeeks.

You can not properly check your facing curve without a glass gage 
(<$20).  If you had measurements to post, I could comment on them.

Thanks guys. By looking at it under the microscope in
the electronics lab here at work, I can see that the
side rails are flat from the tip back about 7mm. I
guess I was a little too cautious about stopping the
curve at the tip.

So it looks like the curve needs to be smoothed out
without opening it up any more. Do you think I should
attempt this with the tools I have? Do I need a curve
gauge to pull this off?

Then again, I did try a softer reed and it did play
softly easier. If the sudden break in the curve is an
OK thing, I should probably leave it alone. What
effect might this curve have?

Thanks!


--- Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:

---------------------------------
The way that Toby suggests you check out your piece is
about the best 
you can do with what you have.  But you will have a
greater chance of 
success by obtaining the proper gages and tools.  This
work is 
difficult enough with the proper equipment.  Its not a
huge 
investment.  Only about the cost of 1-2 mouthpieces.  

Toby's description of observing the tip rail curve
using light 
reflection is good.  I do this too.  But I usually put
in a slight 
curve in the tip rail all the way to the tip.  I find
even a little 
makes a piece better for altissimo response.

If the rails are uneven and do not have a proper
gentle curve to 
them, the piece will play with additional resistance. 
If it is too 
open and the reeds are hard it will be resistant.  If
the tip rail is 
crooked it adds to the resistance.  To play a
resistant piece, you 
blow with more pressure.  This is the fuel for chirps.
 Plus if the 
tip is uneven and the baffle is high near the tip, I
think it allows 
the very tip of the reed to vibrate at the high
frequencies we call 
chirps or squeeks.

You can not properly check your facing curve without a
glass gage 
(<$20).  If you had measurements to post, I could
comment on them.




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Visit the site at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece
Work.

To see and modify your groups, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.

You can hold the mouthpiece firmly to the glass, and slide the feelers
under gently.  Don�t push, or it will wedge the mouthpiece up off the
glass.  Easy does it.  See if the feeler is straight across.  Do this
with various feelers along the facing.  In another post I listed sizes
to use.  You will need some additional sizes of feelers up to about 2.4
mm.

Paul Coats


stencilmann wrote:

>  All I have right now in the way of tools is a set of Craftsman
> feeler gauges (.150mm to .900mm) and a flat piece of glass. With
> these simple tools, what things can I do to determine if a
> mouthpiece has any problems (flat table, even rails, etc.)?
>
> I've been through tough times finding a soprano mouthpiece I want to
> play. For about 10 years, I played on Dukoff D8's on SAT as my main
> mouthpieces. After a 10 year break from soprano, I've tried to get
> back to my original setup but I've been through 3 D8's on soprano
> that had defects (uneven tips, problems with chirping, etc.).
>
> The latest D8 seemed to play well for me when I first got it but I
> realized on a gig that it is difficult to play softly. I ended up
> removing a very small amount of baffle just behind the tip (like
> several of you here have suggested) and then gave it a few light
> pulls across the sandpaper to help define the tip rail. Now it seems
> to fight me even more and I think I may have messed up the rails.
> What should I look for? TIA!
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.