Mouthpiece Work / wooden mouthpieces
FROM: bluesax99 (bluesax99)
SUBJECT: wooden mouthpieces
A couple of simple (I hope) questions: Are there currently any manufacturers of wooden saxophone mouthpieces? If so, what kind(s) of wood? Thanks.
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: wooden mouthpieces
Zinner, Labayle, Lamberson, Sugal and Freddie Gregory all currently list that they make/sell wood sax mouthpieces. There may be others. Grenadilla, Ebony and "hardwood" are mentioned. You can find their sites in the Mouthpiece Works Links section.
FROM: reidalf (Alf Reid [AST VT])
SUBJECT: Re: wooden mouthpieces
Ebony ( as in professional clarinets) is the most popular wood used. POMARICO in Italy makes them at affordable prices. Other woods also available from ZINNER in Germany , some photos on their website. I made several using Ebony. Next one will be AFRICAN BLACKWOOD which they also use on clarinets. The area where 2 types of trees grows overlaps slightly, very hot somewhat dry conditions. According to the suplier of woods the African Blackwood is even harder than Ebony. The hardness is good but might make it more prone to damage when dropped on a hard surface. The wooden pieces seems to be more responsive than metal and some rubber MPC , at least to me. Sound is good but depends mostly on the chamber baffle combination. Can be just as bright as metal if it has a high baffle. Feels good in the mouth even without a patch. Warms up very quikly. -----Original Message----- From: bluesax99 [mailto:bluesax99@...] Sent: 27 March 2003 01:50 To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Subject: [MouthpieceWork] wooden mouthpieces A couple of simple (I hope) questions: Are there currently any manufacturers of wooden saxophone mouthpieces? If so, what kind(s) of wood? Thanks. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT <http://rd.yahoo.com/M$6920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/S05032198:HM/A08984/R=2/id=noscript/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/300_02F/g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl> <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M$6920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A08984/rand3163473> Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . ______________________________________________ "This information is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain private, confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material and may be subject to confidentiality agreements. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or any other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all storage media. The company is neither liable for proper, complete transmission of the information contained in this communication, any delay in its receipt or that the mail is virus-free"
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)
SUBJECT: Re: wooden mouthpieces
I think there are a very few, of Ebony, aka Grenadilla. But wood is not a very stable material for mouthpieces. Mouthpieces were made from wood, many years ago. I have seen old clarinet and a tarogato mouthpiece made of ebony. I have also seen the LA Sax (Orsi) contrabass sax, with its grenadilla mouthpiece. The main problem, for sax, is that the neck inserts into the mouthpiece, and it would tend to crack the wood. This happens even with plastic or hard rubber, and to fix it we put a metal band on the shank. Wood never really caught on with saxophone. Also, the facing of wood mouthpieces changes constantly due to moisture content of the wood, temperature, all the things that affect wood. Many, many years ago, before hard rubber, clarinetists were taught refacing in the conservatories. You know how the orchestra waits patiently, while the concertmaster changes a violin string. Well, they waited also while the clarinetist fixed a warped facing in the middle of the concert. I have refaced a few old wood clarinet mouthpieces, and that material, no matter what wood, just does not have the capability of taking the very fine adjustment necessary for a precise, good playing facing. Wood is just too soft, too easily cracked. It may play well now, but I could not make a guarantee for tomorrow, or next week, or even 15 minutes from now when the moisture of your breath has soaked into it. So, wood has been tried and discarded in the past, and guys try it every so often. Same with glass, aka �crystal� mouthpieces� just too delicate for any playing, not just sax. Interestingly, while clarinetists have not adopted the metal mouthpiece, there is a metal barrel available. And a few clarinetists play glass mouthpieces. I had tried them, years ago, and after breaking the third one from a very light tap against the music stand, gave up on glass for that instrument. Interestingly, there is a guy in Europe making a wood sax neck, but I have not seen one, only heard about it. Paul bluesax99 wrote: > A couple of simple (I hope) questions: Are there currently any > manufacturers of wooden saxophone mouthpieces? If so, what kind(s) of > wood? Thanks. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [Image] > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to > MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web": http://www.saxontheweb.net or directly to Paul's articles at: http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/ Listen to Paul's MP3's at: http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952 and view photos.
FROM: dunebug2222 (dunebug2222)
SUBJECT: wooden mouthpieces
I bought a bari which came with a wooden mouthpiece something I have not herd of so far. What do people think of these nice, or nasty?
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: wooden mouthpieces
Most wood is dimensionally unstable. I have measured significant facing changes between a cold dry piece and its warm wet state. I've mostly seen LeBayle woods. But I did have one Brancher that was stable. It was a joy to play. Nice feel (from the wood) and big sound (due to its design, not the wood). --- dunebug2222 <dunebug2222@...> wrote: > I bought a bari which came with a wooden mouthpiece something I have > not herd of so far. > What do people think of these nice, or nasty? > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/
FROM: railwayreed (railwayreed)
SUBJECT: Re: wooden mouthpieces
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "dunebug2222" <dunebug2222@...> wrote: > > I bought a bari which came with a wooden mouthpiece something I have > not herd of so far. > What do people think of these nice, or nasty? > I think they can be very nice if they are made properly, and well taken care of.Wood is a living material and responds on the humidity in our breath, which will make the wood swell. This will happen even though the mouthpiece are made of a very oily wood. It is therefore very important to dry the mouthpiece with a piece of cloth or something after playing, also because our saliva contains some protein that over time can destroy the glue in the wood that holds the wooden cells together. It is also very important to give the mothpiece some oil regularely, especially inside the mouthpiece. Bore oil for clarinets works fine. Cause every time you dry your mothpiece inside, you also take with you a bit of the mouthpieces oil with you on the cloth that you use. Another importent thing here is not to leave the mouthpiece on the sax neck after playing. That is the safest way to let your mouthpiece crack. When the wood starts to dry, it will shrink.Another importent thing is not to let the mouthpiece be exposed for heat, or great changes in temperature. The structure of the wood has a lot to say on how easy the mouthpiece cracks, and also how long the wood has been allowed to rest and dry before made into a mouthpiece counts. When cut, the wood has a lot of tension in it, so it is important that the wood is treated rigth before turned into a mouthpiece. When all that said, I know some sax players that plays on wooden mouthpieces, and never wants to play on anything else because of the mellow, rich and full sound that they feel the mouthpiece give them, both professionals and amateur players. They just have to take more care of their mouthpiece. Helge
FROM: dunebug2222 (david greding)
SUBJECT: Re: wooden mouthpieces
The sax is said to have been in a closet for 20 years is their anything I can do to pre condition the wood like soak it in oil for a week? --- railwayreed <helgsolv@...> wrote: > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "dunebug2222" > > <dunebug2222@...> wrote: > > > > I bought a bari which came with a wooden > mouthpiece something I > have > > not herd of so far. > > What do people think of these nice, or nasty? > > > > > > I think they can be very nice if they are made > properly, and well > taken care of.Wood is a living material and responds > on the humidity > in our breath, which will make the wood swell. This > will happen even > though the mouthpiece are made of a very oily wood. > It is therefore > very important to dry the mouthpiece with a piece of > cloth or > something after playing, also because our saliva > contains some > protein that over time can destroy the glue in the > wood that holds > the wooden cells together. It is also very important > to give the > mothpiece some oil regularely, especially inside the > mouthpiece. Bore > oil for clarinets works fine. Cause every time you > dry your mothpiece > inside, you also take with you a bit of the > mouthpieces oil with > you on the cloth that you use. Another importent > thing here is not > to leave the mouthpiece on the sax neck after > playing. That is the > safest way to let your mouthpiece crack. When the > wood starts to dry, > it will shrink.Another importent thing is not to let > the mouthpiece > be exposed for heat, or great changes in > temperature. > The structure of the wood has a lot to say on how > easy the > mouthpiece cracks, and also how long the wood has > been allowed to > rest and dry before made into a mouthpiece counts. > When cut, the wood > has a lot of tension in it, so it is important that > the wood is > treated rigth before turned into a mouthpiece. > When all that said, I know some sax > players that plays on > wooden mouthpieces, and never wants to play on > anything else because > of the mellow, rich and full sound that they feel > the mouthpiece give > them, both professionals and amateur players. They > just have to take > more care of their mouthpiece. > Helge > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/
FROM: railwayreed (railwayreed)
SUBJECT: Re: wooden mouthpieces
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote: > > Most wood is dimensionally unstable. I have measured significant facing > changes between a cold dry piece and its warm wet state. I've mostly seen > LeBayle woods. But I did have one Brancher that was stable. It was a joy > to play. Nice feel (from the wood) and big sound (due to its design, not > the wood). > > > --- dunebug2222 <dunebug2222@...> wrote: > > > I bought a bari which came with a wooden mouthpiece something I have > > not herd of so far. > > What do people think of these nice, or nasty? > > > > > > The changes in the first mouthpiece you mention Keith is because the mouthpiece has not been regularely treated with oil. You see when there are oil in the wooden cells in the first place there are no room for the moisture in your breath, and the lay on the mouthpiece will be stabile. Helge > > > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > http://sims.yahoo.com/ >
FROM: gwindplayer (gwindplayer)
SUBJECT: Re: wooden mouthpieces
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote: > > Most wood is dimensionally unstable. I have measured significant facing > changes between a cold dry piece and its warm wet state. I've mostly seen > LeBayle woods. But I did have one Brancher that was stable. It was a joy > to play. Nice feel (from the wood) and big sound (due to its design, not > the wood). > > > --- dunebug2222 <dunebug2222@...> wrote: > > > I bought a bari which came with a wooden mouthpiece something I have > > not herd of so far. > > What do people think of these nice, or nasty? > > Wood has a unique tone quality. Most of the commercially available pieces are made from ebony or granadilla which both are quite dense and the most stable but still not as "fixed" as rubber or metal. The vulcanization process for rubber wasn't perfected until the early 1830's so clarinet mouthpieces were intially wood material. Hard rubber and metal proved to be more stable materials which is why wood is not a standard manufacturer's choice for material. Any wooden mouthpieces that I have used for a length of time regardless of attention to care and hygiene have required the table leveled periodically. This was due to both the compression of the ligature and the corrosive affect of saliva on the mouthpiece.
FROM: railwayreed (Helge Solvang)
SUBJECT: SV: [MouthpieceWork] Re: wooden mouthpieces
Yes, you can soak the mouthpiece in oil. But first you have to clean it carefully with spirit to get rid of old oil and other stuff that can be of the surface. Then you may put your mouthpiece in a room that is not to dry and not to different in temperature from the room you found it in, and let it stay there for a week or two to stabilize. Then you start carefully by oiling the mouthpiece with a small amount of oil all over. Do it in the evening, If the mouthpiece seems dry next morning, repeat the treatment. After having done this , say 3 to 4 times, then you can soak it oil for a week or so. But afterwards I think it will be ready for a good reface. If you take care of your mouthpiece as I wrote before in my first post I think the mouthpiece can last for a long time. Helge _____ Fra: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] På vegne av david greding Sendt: 17. mai 2007 14:02 Til: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Emne: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: wooden mouthpieces The sax is said to have been in a closet for 20 years is their anything I can do to pre condition the wood like soak it in oil for a week? --- railwayreed <helgsolv@start. <mailto:helgsolv%40start.no> no> wrote: > --- In MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "dunebug2222" > > <dunebug2222@...> wrote: > > > > I bought a bari which came with a wooden > mouthpiece something I > have > > not herd of so far. > > What do people think of these nice, or nasty? > > > > > > I think they can be very nice if they are made > properly, and well > taken care of.Wood is a living material and responds > on the humidity > in our breath, which will make the wood swell. This > will happen even > though the mouthpiece are made of a very oily wood. > It is therefore > very important to dry the mouthpiece with a piece of > cloth or > something after playing, also because our saliva > contains some > protein that over time can destroy the glue in the > wood that holds > the wooden cells together. It is also very important > to give the > mothpiece some oil regularely, especially inside the > mouthpiece. Bore > oil for clarinets works fine. Cause every time you > dry your mothpiece > inside, you also take with you a bit of the > mouthpieces oil with > you on the cloth that you use. Another importent > thing here is not > to leave the mouthpiece on the sax neck after > playing. That is the > safest way to let your mouthpiece crack. When the > wood starts to dry, > it will shrink.Another importent thing is not to let > the mouthpiece > be exposed for heat, or great changes in > temperature. > The structure of the wood has a lot to say on how > easy the > mouthpiece cracks, and also how long the wood has > been allowed to > rest and dry before made into a mouthpiece counts. > When cut, the wood > has a lot of tension in it, so it is important that > the wood is > treated rigth before turned into a mouthpiece. > When all that said, I know some sax > players that plays on > wooden mouthpieces, and never wants to play on > anything else because > of the mellow, rich and full sound that they feel > the mouthpiece give > them, both professionals and amateur players. They > just have to take > more care of their mouthpiece. > Helge > > > __________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims. <http://sims.yahoo.com/> yahoo.com/
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul C.)
SUBJECT: Re: wooden mouthpieces
Unfortunately, every few years some mouthpiece maker rediscovers wooden mouthpieces. Before the advent of hard rubber for mouthpieces, they were made of wood. You've probably seen a 1st Violinist break a string, and the whole orchestra and audience sit quietly while he changes the string. I've seen Iztak Pearman do that, and he tells jokes while he changes the string. Since wood is so dimensionally unstable, it would also happen that the whole orchestra and audience sat quietly while the clarinetist refaced his mouthpiece so that he could play his solo. Paul dunebug2222 <dunebug2222@...> wrote: I bought a bari which came with a wooden mouthpiece something I have not herd of so far. What do people think of these nice, or nasty? Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet": http://www.saxgourmet.com Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at: http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952 Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from http://www.saxrax.com For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@... --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
FROM: dunebug2222 (david greding)
SUBJECT: Re: SV: [MouthpieceWork] Re: wooden mouthpieces
I will clean it with sprit today. --- Helge Solvang <helgsolv@...> wrote: > Yes, you can soak the mouthpiece in oil. But first > you have to clean it > carefully with spirit to get rid of old oil and > other stuff that can be of > the surface. Then you may put your mouthpiece in a > room that is not to dry > and not to different in temperature from the room > you found it in, and let > it stay there for a week or two to stabilize. Then > you start carefully by > oiling the mouthpiece with a small amount of oil all > over. Do it in the > evening, If the mouthpiece seems dry next morning, > repeat the treatment. > After having done this , say 3 to 4 times, then you > can soak it oil for a > week or so. But afterwards I think it will be ready > for a good reface. If > you take care of your mouthpiece as I wrote before > in my first post I think > the mouthpiece can last for a long time. > > Helge > > > > _____ > > Fra: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] > P� vegne av david greding > Sendt: 17. mai 2007 14:02 > Til: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > Emne: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: wooden mouthpieces > > > > The sax is said to have been in a closet for 20 > years > is their anything I can do to pre condition the wood > like soak it in oil for a week? > --- railwayreed <helgsolv@start. > <mailto:helgsolv%40start.no> no> wrote: > > > --- In MouthpieceWork@ > <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> > yahoogroups.com, "dunebug2222" > > > > <dunebug2222@...> wrote: > > > > > > I bought a bari which came with a wooden > > mouthpiece something I > > have > > > not herd of so far. > > > What do people think of these nice, or nasty? > > > > > > > > > > > I think they can be very nice if they are made > > properly, and well > > taken care of.Wood is a living material and > responds > > on the humidity > > in our breath, which will make the wood swell. > This > > will happen even > > though the mouthpiece are made of a very oily > wood. > > It is therefore > > very important to dry the mouthpiece with a piece > of > > cloth or > > something after playing, also because our saliva > > contains some > > protein that over time can destroy the glue in the > > wood that holds > > the wooden cells together. It is also very > important > > to give the > > mothpiece some oil regularely, especially inside > the > > mouthpiece. Bore > > oil for clarinets works fine. Cause every time you > > dry your mothpiece > > inside, you also take with you a bit of the > > mouthpieces oil with > > you on the cloth that you use. Another importent > > thing here is not > > to leave the mouthpiece on the sax neck after > > playing. That is the > > safest way to let your mouthpiece crack. When the > > wood starts to dry, > > it will shrink.Another importent thing is not to > let > > the mouthpiece > > be exposed for heat, or great changes in > > temperature. > > The structure of the wood has a lot to say on how > > easy the > > mouthpiece cracks, and also how long the wood has > > been allowed to > > rest and dry before made into a mouthpiece counts. > > When cut, the wood > > has a lot of tension in it, so it is important > that > > the wood is > > treated rigth before turned into a mouthpiece. > > When all that said, I know some sax > > players that plays on > > wooden mouthpieces, and never wants to play on > > anything else because > > of the mellow, rich and full sound that they feel > > the mouthpiece give > > them, both professionals and amateur players. They > > just have to take > > more care of their mouthpiece. > > Helge > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - > their life, your story. Play > Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > http://sims. <http://sims.yahoo.com/> yahoo.com/ > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html
FROM: saxtek2003 (saxtek2003)
SUBJECT: Re: wooden mouthpieces
I need more details to really make a fair comment. Before 1900, wooden saxophone mouthpieces were common. The grenadilla wood actually produced a good sound, which was at least partially due to the skill of the mouthpiece makers. But there were disadvantages. Wooden mouthpieces, even the best ones, would change dimensions after they had been played for a while. Hard rubber began to replace the wooden mouthpieces because hard rubber was more stable. A saxophone player could trust a hard rubber mouthpiece to play the same way for decades. I have experimented extensively with old wooden mouthpieces, trying to duplicate an authentic 1800s saxophone sound. Usually I have had to reface the old wooden mouthpieces I found, because the wood dried out and shrank or warped. Once the old mouthpieces had a good facing, they played very well. Not loud, but with a rich , interesting sound. Newer wood mouthpieces are a puzzle to me. There is probably a slight nuance to the sound, but most of them are small chamber mouthpieces which overwhelm the effect of the wood on the sound of the mouthpiece with the power of the smaller chamber. Hard rubber, plastic, metal - Anything would be better than wood under these circumstances, if for no other reason than stability. If your baritone was old, it probably had one of the wonderful old wooden mouthpieces. I encourage you to keep it as it is. These mouthpieces are historical items that can trace the evolution of our modern saxophone. Early 20th century hard rubber mouthpieces play very much the same, if you want to duplicate the sound. Unfortunately, I have recently replaced a baritone sax solo using a 19th century wooden mouthpiece on my myspace site. Check back often - I will post it again on this page: http://www.myspace.com/saxpsychosis
FROM: dunebug2222 (david greding)
SUBJECT: Re: wooden mouthpieces
I t is a Couesnon & Cie Baritone Saxophone - 1927 closet kept last 20 years I will post pics. on my space later today. --- saxtek2003 <saxtek@...> wrote: > I need more details to really make a fair comment. > > Before 1900, wooden saxophone mouthpieces were > common. The > grenadilla wood actually produced a good sound, > which was at least > partially due to the skill of the mouthpiece makers. > > But there were disadvantages. Wooden mouthpieces, > even the best > ones, would change dimensions after they had been > played for a > while. Hard rubber began to replace the wooden > mouthpieces because > hard rubber was more stable. A saxophone player > could trust a hard > rubber mouthpiece to play the same way for decades. > > I have experimented extensively with old wooden > mouthpieces, trying > to duplicate an authentic 1800s saxophone sound. > Usually I have had > to reface the old wooden mouthpieces I found, > because the wood dried > out and shrank or warped. Once the old mouthpieces > had a good > facing, they played very well. Not loud, but with a > rich , > interesting sound. > > Newer wood mouthpieces are a puzzle to me. There is > probably a > slight nuance to the sound, but most of them are > small chamber > mouthpieces which overwhelm the effect of the wood > on the sound of > the mouthpiece with the power of the smaller > chamber. Hard rubber, > plastic, metal - Anything would be better than wood > under these > circumstances, if for no other reason than > stability. > > If your baritone was old, it probably had one of the > wonderful old > wooden mouthpieces. I encourage you to keep it as > it is. These > mouthpieces are historical items that can trace the > evolution of our > modern saxophone. Early 20th century hard rubber > mouthpieces play > very much the same, if you want to duplicate the > sound. > > Unfortunately, I have recently replaced a baritone > sax solo using a > 19th century wooden mouthpiece on my myspace site. > Check back often - > I will post it again on this page: > > http://www.myspace.com/saxpsychosis > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/