First post here so go easy on me :-) I've been playing around with 
baffles and chambers on a Rico Graftonite soprano B7 (paid $12 so I 
couldn't resist messing with it).

I'm using JB Weld to form the baffle and throat but to form a small 
chamber I inserted a 3/8" brass compression sleeve used in fittings 
for brass and copper tubing. I stumbled across these when I had to 
re-route a natural gas line in my home. The 3/8" sleeve fit 
perfectly in the Rico's  but I could see that the sleeves can easily 
be cut lengthwise and resized.

The Rico is turning out exactly the way I'd hoped and I'm enjoying 
it more than any other of my stock "expensive" mouthpieces. Amazing 
since I have no idea what I'm doing :-)

Not knowing what you're doing is sometimes an advantage. What differences are you finding your mods made to the piece?

Toby
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jaegermusic 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 2:14 PM
  Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Chamber mods with compression sleeves


  First post here so go easy on me :-) I've been playing around with 
  baffles and chambers on a Rico Graftonite soprano B7 (paid $12 so I 
  couldn't resist messing with it).

  I'm using JB Weld to form the baffle and throat but to form a small 
  chamber I inserted a 3/8" brass compression sleeve used in fittings 
  for brass and copper tubing. I stumbled across these when I had to 
  re-route a natural gas line in my home. The 3/8" sleeve fit 
  perfectly in the Rico's  but I could see that the sleeves can easily 
  be cut lengthwise and resized.

  The Rico is turning out exactly the way I'd hoped and I'm enjoying 
  it more than any other of my stock "expensive" mouthpieces. Amazing 
  since I have no idea what I'm doing :-)


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Altering chmbers, throats and baffles is a great way to start experimenting
with mouthpiece work.  It does not require the precision gages and tool
work that refacing does.  

The only potential drawback I see is that you may alter the volume of the
chamber too much and throw the intonation off.  This would be most
prevalent on a soprano piece.  As you add material to make the baffle or
throat, the volume goes smaller.  This requires you to pull out the MP more
on the cork to recover the missing volume to tune the mid-range of the sax.
 This will flaten the high notes (palm keys) in relation to to the low
notes.  If your palm keys were sharp to begin with, this would help fix the
problem.

The next step would be to remove some material to compensate for adding a
baffle.  A flex shaft high speed rotary tool (Dremmel) is ideal for this
work, but you can use riffler files and a lot of hand work.

I like to use temporary putty to try out ideas and then epoxy putty for the
final shape.

Another way to experiment with baffle location is to get a Strathon
Adjustatone or Ponzol M2000 mouthpiece.  They both have adjustable baffles
to slide around.  I have one of each.

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Toby wrote:
> Not knowing what you're doing is sometimes an advantage. What 
differences are you finding your mods made to the piece?

The changes did as expected: its brighter, louder, crystal clear up 
top and a little brittle down low. The tuning was not adversely 
effected (it must be pulled out on the neck a little, but the tuning 
of individual notes from top to bottom stayed pretting much the 
same). It projects as well as my Dukoff D8 but doesn't have 
the "character" that the Dukoff has. Now that I think of it, the 
mods make it play very similar to a borrowed Berg Larson 80/0. 
Actually, the Rico is brighter - the compression sleeve really made 
for a tiny chamber.

I bought the Rico because I wanted a cheap, new "reference" 
mouthpiece with a medium chamber to try with my vintage soprano. 
I've had all sorts of problems with Dukoffs and Bergs that I've 
bought used: manufacturing defects, uneven rails, badly reworked 
tips and minor tuning problems. Now that I've worked out the tuning 
problems on the horn and found a D8 that works, I thought I'd go 
ahead and turbocharge the Graftonite. I was going to buy the 80/0 
Berg but the Rico with the mods is better for my needs.

If I can find an alto Graftonite, I'll probably try the same 
experiment. Way back in my college days, I modified all my 
moughtpieces so I've had some experience at not know what I'm 
doing :-) The big lesson I learned back then was that I could ADD 
material to a mouthpiece and get good results, but if I brought 
files or sandpaper anywhere near a mouthpiece, it instantly turned 
into a very expensive door stop :-) 

Thanks Keith for responding:
> The only potential drawback I see is that you may alter
> the volume of the chamber too much and throw the
> intonation off.

Intonation seems ok. I've spent the last few weeks in front of a 
laptop with a tuning program running. I also use the computer to 
record my progress with sax tuning (key height, etc.) and mouthpiece 
experiments.

> The next step would be to remove some material to compensate
> for adding a baffle.

Are you talking about removing some of the JB Weld I used to make 
the baffle or removing plastic from the mouthpiece? I've already 
leveled out the baffle, scooped out the throat and cleaned the epoxy 
out of the chamber. I might consider cutting a half centimeter off 
the shank.

> Another way to experiment with baffle location is to get a Strathon
> Adjustatone or Ponzol M2000 mouthpiece.

Somewhere I have a Strathon tenor mouthpiece that I bought some 20 
years ago after I had a conversation with Tom Scott about the one he 
was playing on. I modified mine so that the baffle could be moved 
further up than it was designed to. Sounds silly to modify an 
adjustable mouthpiece!

>>>Are you talking about removing some of the JB Weld I used to make 
the baffle or removing plastic from the mouthpiece? <<<

A common alteration is to add some baffle and to hog out the throat some. 
I have not found that I need to do this.  I usually can add some baffle
without compensating for it elsewhere.  

I have not played with making throats smaller.  IF this throws the
intonation off, you need to decide how to procede.  Perhaps open the throat
some or hog out the side walls or lower the baffle some.


>>>Somewhere I have a Strathon tenor mouthpiece that I bought some 20 
years ago after I had a conversation with Tom Scott about the one he 
was playing on. I modified mine so that the baffle could be moved 
further up than it was designed to. Sounds silly to modify an 
adjustable mouthpiece!<<<

Neat. I would have not thunk about it!  My (modern) Strathon baffle already
goes so close to the tip that going more might close off the airway. I did
however put some putty on the back, bullet side, of the sliding baffle to
make the chamber volume smaller for use on my 10M.  This helped my
intonation, but now the piece barely stays on my cork.  After using it for
a year, I moved on to my current Quantum which has a longer shank.

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I find that JB Weld, and other industrial metal filled epoxies
(Baker-lok, HalcoWeld A, Humbleweld, etc� all of these are really the
same as JB, are actually made in the old Humble refinery in Baytown,
TX), fouls the grooves in my files quickly.  Very difficult to brush out
on the file card!  A better baffle material is epoxy putty, or even good
old Bondo.

Paul



jaegermusic wrote:

>  First post here so go easy on me :-) I've been playing around with
> baffles and chambers on a Rico Graftonite soprano B7 (paid $12 so I
> couldn't resist messing with it).
>
> I'm using JB Weld to form the baffle and throat but to form a small
> chamber I inserted a 3/8" brass compression sleeve used in fittings
> for brass and copper tubing. I stumbled across these when I had to
> re-route a natural gas line in my home. The 3/8" sleeve fit
> perfectly in the Rico's  but I could see that the sleeves can easily
> be cut lengthwise and resized.
>
> The Rico is turning out exactly the way I'd hoped and I'm enjoying
> it more than any other of my stock "expensive" mouthpieces. Amazing
> since I have no idea what I'm doing :-)
>
>
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>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
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> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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I find metal Dukoff "Silverlite" tough to clean out.  My files always have
some stuck in them.  I'm not sure if JB Weld has metal in it.  Mine is
creamy and gray, but I do not use a lot of it.

For baffles and chambers I mostly use epoxy putty that sets in 5-10
minutes.  It holds its shape better while working it.  Regular epoxies are
kind of saucy.  You need to learn how long to wait before they are stiff
enough to shape.  

I'm using some putty that has aluminum in it and it has a tendency to stick
in the files.  I think gray plumber's epoxy putty (Oatey is one brand) also
does not have metal in it.  I find a file card cleans it out easily.

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Keith Bradbury wrote:

>  I find metal Dukoff "Silverlite" tough to clean out.  My files always
> have
> some stuck in them.  I'm not sure if JB Weld has metal in it.  Mine is
>
> creamy and gray, but I do not use a lot of it.

JB Weld has powdered aluminum in it.

>
>
> For baffles and chambers I mostly use epoxy putty that sets in 5-10
> minutes.  It holds its shape better while working it.  Regular epoxies
> are
> kind of saucy.  You need to learn how long to wait before they are
> stiff
> enough to shape.

Epoxy putty can be shaped with a wet finger, or other tool.  The water
will not affect the epoxy, the two don�t mix, and it lubricates the
finger or tool for easy shaping.  Really a better material for baffle
work than JB.

>
>
> I'm using some putty that has aluminum in it and it has a tendency to
> stick
> in the files.  I think gray plumber's epoxy putty (Oatey is one brand)
> also
> does not have metal in it.  I find a file card cleans it out easily.

I have a file card from either Ferree�s or Micromark, not sure.  But
whatever the source, a necessary accessory.

Paul


>
>
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                        ADVERTISEMENT


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--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.