Mouthpiece Work / DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
FROM: reidalf (reidalf <alf.reid@...>)
SUBJECT: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
Can anybody please give their opinion on the next item as seen on the following website. Anybody tried or seen it ? http://www.dawkes.co.uk/dawkes/index.html The `Emanon' A revolutionary New Mouthpiece Design The first new design for saxophone mouthpieces in over half a century. This is the only mouthpiece that works on the principle of a double chamber; indeed, there are two baffles and two chambers. Each mouthpiece is hand made and the baffle and chamber designs are integral to the mouthpiece facing - unlike mass produced models. There is a total clarity of sound, especially at soft volume levels even in the very high extreme registers, with equality of tonal response. The two chamber principle offering unlimited volume without any tonal distortion. Fully tested in public at the Frankfurt Trade Fair by world class saxophonists, the praise was immediate and totally unreserved. The hand making process is naturally slow and limits quantity, however, you may test models which are available at the shop in our testing rooms.
FROM: kymarto (Toby)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
The copy sounds a bit "snake-oilish" to me. I wonder how you can have a double chamber and double baffle with a single facing? Interesting...
Toby
----- Original Message -----
From: reidalf <alf.reid@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:58 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
Can anybody please give their opinion on the next item as seen on the
following website. Anybody tried or seen it ?
http://www.dawkes.co.uk/dawkes/index.html
The `Emanon'
A revolutionary New Mouthpiece Design
The first new design for saxophone mouthpieces in over half a
century. This is the only mouthpiece that works on the principle of a
double chamber; indeed, there are two baffles and two chambers. Each
mouthpiece is hand made and the baffle and chamber designs are
integral to the mouthpiece facing - unlike mass produced models.
There is a total clarity of sound, especially at soft volume levels
even in the very high extreme registers, with equality of tonal
response. The two chamber principle offering unlimited volume without
any tonal distortion. Fully tested in public at the Frankfurt Trade
Fair by world class saxophonists, the praise was immediate and
totally unreserved. The hand making process is naturally slow and
limits quantity, however, you may test models which are available at
the shop in our testing rooms.
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FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
Rovner calls some of their mouthpiece configurations "double chamber". Its just a distinct change in geometry partway through their chamber. Rovner has pics on their site. Some old mouthpieces were called double chambers, like the Conn Comet. They have a squeeze throat, like Selmers, followed by a bulb shape, like Caravans. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
FROM: mikeruhl (Mike Ruhl)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
And then there was the M.C. Gregory "triple rail", which in effect created two chambers. See www.mouthpieceheaven.com for pictures of this oddity. >From: Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> >Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com >To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ? >Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 18:50:05 -0800 (PST) > >Rovner calls some of their mouthpiece configurations "double chamber". Its >just a distinct change in geometry partway through their chamber. Rovner >has pics on their site. > >Some old mouthpieces were called double chambers, like the Conn Comet. >They have a squeeze throat, like Selmers, followed by a bulb shape, like >Caravans. > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more >http://taxes.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid963
FROM: billmecca (billmecca)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
I had a Rovner Eagle for a while, didn't like the duckbill, but anyway, that was touted as having a "double chamber" looked a bit like a swimming pool indentation in the larger chamber. Interesting I went to the Dawkes site, couldnt find pictures of the Emanon piece anywhere,. some nice shots of the exterior of the bldg, the sax diplays etc, but not one picture of one mpc, maybe I wasn't looking in the right place?? --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@y...> wrote: > Rovner calls some of their mouthpiece configurations "double chamber". Its > just a distinct change in geometry partway through their chamber. Rovner > has pics on their site. > > Some old mouthpieces were called double chambers, like the Conn Comet. > They have a squeeze throat, like Selmers, followed by a bulb shape, like Caravans. > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
There is no picture on the Dawkes site. Just a non-specific description. ==2925 Crane St., Vineland, NJ 08361 My CD, Lamps and Mouthpieces at http://www.geocities.com/kwbradbury/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
FROM: mikeruhl (Mike Ruhl)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
I emailed them the other day, asking about the "Emanon" (that's "no name" backwards, btw). I got a reply that said the mouthpiece technician wasn't in that day, but would reply later. I'm still waiting. >From: "billmecca" <bill@...> >Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com >To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ? >Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 00:33:11 -0000 > >I had a Rovner Eagle for a while, didn't like the duckbill, but >anyway, that was touted as having a "double chamber" looked a bit >like a swimming pool indentation in the larger chamber. > >Interesting I went to the Dawkes site, couldnt find pictures of the >Emanon piece anywhere,. some nice shots of the exterior of the bldg, >the sax diplays etc, but not one picture of one mpc, maybe I wasn't >looking in the right place?? > >--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury ><kwbradbury@y...> wrote: > > Rovner calls some of their mouthpiece configurations "double >chamber". Its > > just a distinct change in geometry partway through their chamber. >Rovner > > has pics on their site. > > > > Some old mouthpieces were called double chambers, like the Conn >Comet. > > They have a squeeze throat, like Selmers, followed by a bulb shape, >like Caravans. > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
FROM: tmugwump (Thaddeus Mugwump)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
I wonder just how much a "double chamber" of any configuration would affect the tone of the instrument, aside from whatever effect a change in air flow resistance might provide. It sounds more like voodoo than anything else (to me, anyway).
FROM: kymarto (Toby)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
Well, we know that different baffle heights and chamber sizes definitely affect the tone. The question is whether having a mpc with a chamber that is composed of two discrete components that equal a certain volume really sounds or responds much differently than a mpc with a single chamber of the same volume. I've never read about any objective tests of such a thing. Apparently you can make a conical bore (like a sax) out of a bunch of stepped cylinders and it will still work, so it seems that the air column sort of "averages" out the dimensions of the cone, ignoring the steps for the most part. If that is also true for a mpc (and I don't see why it shouldn't be) then voodoo is probably the correct word. Or maybe "gimmick"....
Toby
----- Original Message -----
From: Thaddeus Mugwump
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
I wonder just how much a "double chamber" of any configuration would affect the tone of the instrument, aside from whatever effect a change in air flow resistance might provide. It sounds more like voodoo than anything else (to me, anyway).
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FROM: mikeruhl (Mike Ruhl)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
Just got this reply from Dawkes Music. You have to read between the lines some to get an idea of just what the double chamber is. I had asked if it could be referred to as a "double-step" baffle. "Dear Michael Ruhl Unlike other mass produced mouthpieces that are faced from one blank serving all facings, the Emanon is hand carved so that the correct tonal relationship between the first baffle and chamber with the second is maintained whatever facing is applied. The ebonite is manufactured by Babbitt USA. Your description of a double step does not apply therefore as there is a correctly formed baffle and chamber in both instances and not simply a ledge. The acoustical benefits are quite exceptional and there is no limit consequently to the upper volume while soft playing is naturally clear. Yours sincerely Professor Anton Weinberg Distinguished Teacher; the White House Commission on Presidential Scholars USA Consultant; Dawkes Music Ltd" end quote... >From: Thaddeus Mugwump <tmugwump@...> >Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com >To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ? >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 06:49:51 -0800 (PST) > > >I wonder just how much a "double chamber" of any configuration would affect >the tone of the instrument, aside from whatever effect a change in air flow >resistance might provide. It sounds more like voodoo than anything else (to >me, anyway). > > > > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
The Conn Comet I brought up was one of the pieces Wyman studied. That is the one with the squeeze throat then it opens up to a bulb that is bigger than the bore for the cork. This piece had some good points, but not in proportion to the difficulty in making the piece. At least that is my impression. That is the problem with all odd-ball mouthpiece ideas. Is the benefit worth the manufacturing effort and the high selling price? ==2925 Crane St., Vineland, NJ 08361 My CD, Lamps and Mouthpieces at http://www.geocities.com/kwbradbury/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
FROM: kymarto (Toby)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
Hi Mike
Sounds like all he's talking about is that the baffle is matched to the facing and opens into a standard chamber. So wut's the big deal???
Toby
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Ruhl
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
Just got this reply from Dawkes Music. You have to read between the lines
some to get an idea of just what the double chamber is. I had asked if it
could be referred to as a "double-step" baffle.
"Dear Michael Ruhl
Unlike other mass produced mouthpieces that are faced from one blank serving
all facings, the Emanon is hand carved so that the correct tonal
relationship between the first baffle and chamber with the second is
maintained whatever facing is applied. The ebonite is manufactured by
Babbitt USA.
Your description of a double step does not apply therefore as there is a
correctly formed baffle and chamber in both instances and not simply a
ledge. The acoustical benefits are quite exceptional and there is no limit
consequently to the upper volume while soft playing is naturally clear.
Yours sincerely
Professor Anton Weinberg
Distinguished Teacher; the White House Commission on Presidential Scholars
USA
Consultant; Dawkes Music Ltd"
end quote...
>From: Thaddeus Mugwump <tmugwump@...>
>Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
>Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 06:49:51 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>I wonder just how much a "double chamber" of any configuration would affect
>the tone of the instrument, aside from whatever effect a change in air flow
>resistance might provide. It sounds more like voodoo than anything else (to
>me, anyway).
>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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FROM: mikeruhl (Mike Ruhl)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
I agree, Toby. Prof. Weinberg has plenty of credentials, but to put something forth as "The first new design for saxophone mouthpieces in over half a century" is a pretty heady claim. Mike --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Toby" <kymarto@y...> wrote: > Hi Mike > > Sounds like all he's talking about is that the baffle is matched to the facing and opens into a standard chamber. So wut's the big deal??? > > Toby > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Ruhl > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 12:49 AM > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ? > > > Just got this reply from Dawkes Music. You have to read between the lines > some to get an idea of just what the double chamber is. I had asked if it > could be referred to as a "double-step" baffle. > > "Dear Michael Ruhl > Unlike other mass produced mouthpieces that are faced from one blank serving > all facings, the Emanon is hand carved so that the correct tonal > relationship between the first baffle and chamber with the second is > maintained whatever facing is applied. The ebonite is manufactured by > Babbitt USA. > Your description of a double step does not apply therefore as there is a > correctly formed baffle and chamber in both instances and not simply a > ledge. The acoustical benefits are quite exceptional and there is no limit > consequently to the upper volume while soft playing is naturally clear. > Yours sincerely > Professor Anton Weinberg > Distinguished Teacher; the White House Commission on Presidential Scholars > USA > Consultant; Dawkes Music Ltd" > > end quote... > > > > >From: Thaddeus Mugwump <tmugwump@y...> > >Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > >To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ? > >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 06:49:51 -0800 (PST) > > > > > >I wonder just how much a "double chamber" of any configuration would affect > >the tone of the instrument, aside from whatever effect a change in air flow > >resistance might provide. It sounds more like voodoo than anything else (to > >me, anyway). > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
FROM: xcrezyx (xcrezyx)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
Well, What about MC Gregory's Gale Hollywood Triple Rail? It's essentially the same thing being discussed here...BUT...it was a failure. It didn't improve on anything. Andrew --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Ruhl" <mikeruhl@h...> wrote: > I agree, Toby. Prof. Weinberg has plenty of credentials, but to put > something forth as "The first new design for saxophone mouthpieces in > over half a century" is a pretty heady claim. > > Mike > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Toby" <kymarto@y...> wrote: > > Hi Mike > > > > Sounds like all he's talking about is that the baffle is matched to > the facing and opens into a standard chamber. So wut's the big deal??? > > > > Toby > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Mike Ruhl > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 12:49 AM > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ? > > > > > > Just got this reply from Dawkes Music. You have to read between > the lines > > some to get an idea of just what the double chamber is. I had > asked if it > > could be referred to as a "double-step" baffle. > > > > "Dear Michael Ruhl > > Unlike other mass produced mouthpieces that are faced from one > blank serving > > all facings, the Emanon is hand carved so that the correct tonal > > relationship between the first baffle and chamber with the second > is > > maintained whatever facing is applied. The ebonite is > manufactured by > > Babbitt USA. > > Your description of a double step does not apply therefore as > there is a > > correctly formed baffle and chamber in both instances and not > simply a > > ledge. The acoustical benefits are quite exceptional and there is > no limit > > consequently to the upper volume while soft playing is naturally > clear. > > Yours sincerely > > Professor Anton Weinberg > > Distinguished Teacher; the White House Commission on Presidential > Scholars > > USA > > Consultant; Dawkes Music Ltd" > > > > end quote... > > > > > > > > >From: Thaddeus Mugwump <tmugwump@y...> > > >Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > >To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ? > > >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 06:49:51 -0800 (PST) > > > > > > > > >I wonder just how much a "double chamber" of any configuration > would affect > > >the tone of the instrument, aside from whatever effect a change > in air flow > > >resistance might provide. It sounds more like voodoo than > anything else (to > > >me, anyway). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to > MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to > see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > > > To see and modify your groups, go to > http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service.
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
I think the triple rail with 2 equal chambers side-by-side was its own thing. Most of these other "dual chamber" concepts elude to an upstream and downstream chamber. One in the baffle area, one in the throat. Or one before the throat and one after. Its just a way of hanging a marketing name on their geometry. Is a squeeze throat design actually a triple chamber? Large-small-large? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
FROM: mikeruhl (Mike Ruhl)
SUBJECT: Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ?
I mentioned the Triple Rail a few posts back. What would be interesting would be to take a Triple Rail and build some baffle into one side only. At first, that's what I thought the Emanon might be. >From: "xcrezyx" <xcrezyx@...> >Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com >To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ? >Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 18:06:35 -0000 > >Well, > >What about MC Gregory's Gale Hollywood Triple Rail? It's essentially >the same thing being discussed here...BUT...it was a failure. It >didn't improve on anything. > >Andrew > > > >--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Ruhl" <mikeruhl@h...> >wrote: > > I agree, Toby. Prof. Weinberg has plenty of credentials, but to >put > > something forth as "The first new design for saxophone mouthpieces >in > > over half a century" is a pretty heady claim. > > > > Mike > > > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Toby" <kymarto@y...> wrote: > > > Hi Mike > > > > > > Sounds like all he's talking about is that the baffle is matched >to > > the facing and opens into a standard chamber. So wut's the big >deal??? > > > > > > Toby > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Mike Ruhl > > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 12:49 AM > > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ? > > > > > > > > > Just got this reply from Dawkes Music. You have to read >between > > the lines > > > some to get an idea of just what the double chamber is. I had > > asked if it > > > could be referred to as a "double-step" baffle. > > > > > > "Dear Michael Ruhl > > > Unlike other mass produced mouthpieces that are faced from one > > blank serving > > > all facings, the Emanon is hand carved so that the correct >tonal > > > relationship between the first baffle and chamber with the >second > > is > > > maintained whatever facing is applied. The ebonite is > > manufactured by > > > Babbitt USA. > > > Your description of a double step does not apply therefore as > > there is a > > > correctly formed baffle and chamber in both instances and not > > simply a > > > ledge. The acoustical benefits are quite exceptional and there >is > > no limit > > > consequently to the upper volume while soft playing is >naturally > > clear. > > > Yours sincerely > > > Professor Anton Weinberg > > > Distinguished Teacher; the White House Commission on >Presidential > > Scholars > > > USA > > > Consultant; Dawkes Music Ltd" > > > > > > end quote... > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Thaddeus Mugwump <tmugwump@y...> > > > >Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > > >To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > > >Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: DOUBLE CHAMBER MOUTHPIECE ? > > > >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 06:49:51 -0800 (PST) > > > > > > > > > > > >I wonder just how much a "double chamber" of any configuration > > would affect > > > >the tone of the instrument, aside from whatever effect a >change > > in air flow > > > >resistance might provide. It sounds more like voodoo than > > anything else (to > > > >me, anyway). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to > > MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork >to > > see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. > > > > > > To see and modify your groups, go to > > http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail