Opening up a baritone mpc (Mouthpiece Work Yahoo Group)

FROM: killer_sax (Glenn Spiegel)

SUBJECT: Opening up a baritone mpc

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------I have an old baritone sax mpc, marked "Ideal" that sounds very good, but is
so narrow (about .072) that it's basically useless. I'd like to open it up to
around .100 for use as my concert band piece. Is that much change practical,
or will the sound change too much? Thanks

Glenn

  

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FROM: kymarto (Toby)

SUBJECT: Re: Opening up a baritone mpc

My 2 cents: you can certainly open it up that much, but you are definitely going to change the sound and reponse because in effect you will be raising the baffle by lowering the side rails and tip rail. You will have to cut quite a bit of material out just behind the tip rail because what will happen is that the tip rail itself will disappear into the material of the baffle. This is doable, but it is quite tricky work since it is easy to slip with your file/dremel/sandpaper and scar the tip rail.

In my own limited experience if you can re-establish the correct geometry by taking material off the roof near the tip you will find that the sound of the piece remains esentially the same.

Hopefully someone else with more experience can elaborate.

Toby
----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Spiegel
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 10:26 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Opening up a baritone mpc

I have an old baritone sax mpc, marked "Ideal" that sounds very good, but is so narrow (about .072) that it's basically useless. I'd like to open it up to around .100 for use as my concert band piece. Is that much change practical, or will the sound change too much? Thanks

Glenn

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FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...>)

SUBJECT: Re: Opening up a baritone mpc

Toby mentions the most common way of approaching opening a tip.  In 
this method, you use the existing table and you rework the tip open 
and reshape the baffle and tip rail as needed.  Most players like the 
additional baffle this method brings to a piece.  They were looking 
for a change anyway.  However, on some narrow beak pieces (duck 
bills) and for large tip openings, this method shortens the tip too 
much and destroys what the piece was all about.  Also, on vintage 
pieces with concave side walls, you can run out of usable side rails.

The other method is to cut the heel of the table to angle it so the 
tip becomes more open.  You need to establish a new flat table and 
reface the rails a little, but this method is a lot less traumatic to 
the tip area of a piece.  It takes patience and practice.  The table 
area is much larger than the rail area, so more material needs to be 
sanded away.

FROM: kymarto (Toby)

SUBJECT: Re: Opening up a baritone mpc

This sounds like a great way to do it--clearly less damaging to the geometry of the mpc. But that means that an enormous amount of material has to be taken away from the lower part of the mpc. I can imagine that it takes tremendous patience and strong forearms, especially with a metal mpc, as well as considerable skill in being able to keep the table flat and even.

Toby
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 12:18 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Opening up a baritone mpc

Toby mentions the most common way of approaching opening a tip. In
this method, you use the existing table and you rework the tip open
and reshape the baffle and tip rail as needed. Most players like the
additional baffle this method brings to a piece. They were looking
for a change anyway. However, on some narrow beak pieces (duck
bills) and for large tip openings, this method shortens the tip too
much and destroys what the piece was all about. Also, on vintage
pieces with concave side walls, you can run out of usable side rails.

The other method is to cut the heel of the table to angle it so the
tip becomes more open. You need to establish a new flat table and
reface the rails a little, but this method is a lot less traumatic to
the tip area of a piece. It takes patience and practice. The table
area is much larger than the rail area, so more material needs to be
sanded away.

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FROM: mikeruhl (Mike Ruhl)

SUBJECT: Re: Opening up a baritone mpc

One of the well-known mouthpiece craftsmen has told me privately that he 
typically only employs this technique on rare and/or valuable vintage 
mouthpieces.

I have some current production, not-so-valuable mouthpieces that I'd like to 
try it on.

Mike

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Toby" <kymarto@...>
Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Opening up a baritone mpc
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 01:43:19 +0900

This sounds like a great way to do it--clearly less damaging to the geometry 
of the mpc. But that means that an enormous amount of material has to be 
taken away from the lower part of the mpc. I can imagine that it takes 
tremendous patience and strong forearms, especially with a metal mpc, as 
well as considerable skill in being able to keep the table flat and even.

Toby
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...>
   To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 12:18 AM
   Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Opening up a baritone mpc


   Toby mentions the most common way of approaching opening a tip.  In
   this method, you use the existing table and you rework the tip open
   and reshape the baffle and tip rail as needed.  Most players like the
   additional baffle this method brings to a piece.  They were looking
   for a change anyway.  However, on some narrow beak pieces (duck
   bills) and for large tip openings, this method shortens the tip too
   much and destroys what the piece was all about.  Also, on vintage
   pieces with concave side walls, you can run out of usable side rails.

   The other method is to cut the heel of the table to angle it so the
   tip becomes more open.  You need to establish a new flat table and
   reface the rails a little, but this method is a lot less traumatic to
   the tip area of a piece.  It takes patience and practice.  The table
   area is much larger than the rail area, so more material needs to be
   sanded away.


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FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul Coats)

SUBJECT: Re: Opening up a baritone mpc

Yes, IF the tip is THICK enough to allow this much increase.  It will
also require reworking the baffle to reestablish the tip rail, and to
match the previous contour leading into the tip rail.

Paul



Glenn Spiegel wrote:

>
> I have an old baritone sax mpc, marked "Ideal" that sounds very good,
> but is so narrow (about .072) that it's basically useless.  I'd like
> to open it up to around .100 for use as my concert band piece. Is that
> much change practical, or will the sound change too much? Thanks Glenn
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT


>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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