Hi,
This fix is directed to Keith, who has been trying to tailor a RICO 
ROYAL METALLITE Soprano piece.  He says that he is getting a good 
sound, but he still finds the piece needing improvement, in 
playability.

I bought the large tip model 11 (.075 inch).  It had a huge sound, but 
I could never supply enough air to keep the reed moving on long notes!
Well, I refaced it to a .056 tip, with .650 facing length.  It took me 
many trial and errors, to get what I wanted in response.  OK, now I 
have a great response, but this piece still needs an air compressor to 
supply enough air to play long notes??  Out of desperation, I inserted 
a piece of tygon tubing in the bore (1/2 inch long with a .030 to .040 
wall thickness).  This acted as a choke or throat.  The piece is 
perfect now, very easy blowing (no noticeable air restriction) and now 
I can sustain the long notes.

Oh boy, I was so happy that I also placed a 3/8 inch long piece of 
tubing into MY CLAUDE LAKEY 6* (.075) Soprano piece ---- and a 3/8 
inch long piece of tubing into my METAL DESIGNED by EUGENE REGLEIN 
TENOR 6J mpc. (same mouthpiece as a Metal Tenor Meyer 6J/7J )!

I never could use any of these pieces, because I always ran out of 
air.

Yes, they do have a restricting throat now, but they are--very easy 
blowing.  They do not have the feeling of air restriction.  The air 
does not leak away and keeps the reed vibrating.  Before the 
modification the air would be gone and the reed would stop!

Hi Tom,

Could you clarify a bit just where you placed the tubing? Is it freestanding in the middle of the mpc somehow or does it sit up against the inside walls of the throat to make that area smaller in diameter?

There is an interesting"accessory" for the flute headjoint which is essentially a brass rod which attaches to the inside of the head cork and runs all the way down the headjoint tube. It apparently has the characteristic of reducing the volume of the vibrating air without changing the effective diameter of the tubing. Perhaps I will try to do the same in a mpc by fitting a small rod in the center of the chamber and throat via small wires attached to the inside walls and see what happens....

Toby
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: tomheadly 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 1:41 PM
  Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Fix for problem of running out of air


  Hi,
  This fix is directed to Keith, who has been trying to tailor a RICO 
  ROYAL METALLITE Soprano piece.  He says that he is getting a good 
  sound, but he still finds the piece needing improvement, in 
  playability.

  I bought the large tip model 11 (.075 inch).  It had a huge sound, but 
  I could never supply enough air to keep the reed moving on long notes!
  Well, I refaced it to a .056 tip, with .650 facing length.  It took me 
  many trial and errors, to get what I wanted in response.  OK, now I 
  have a great response, but this piece still needs an air compressor to 
  supply enough air to play long notes??  Out of desperation, I inserted 
  a piece of tygon tubing in the bore (1/2 inch long with a .030 to .040 
  wall thickness).  This acted as a choke or throat.  The piece is 
  perfect now, very easy blowing (no noticeable air restriction) and now 
  I can sustain the long notes.

  Oh boy, I was so happy that I also placed a 3/8 inch long piece of 
  tubing into MY CLAUDE LAKEY 6* (.075) Soprano piece ---- and a 3/8 
  inch long piece of tubing into my METAL DESIGNED by EUGENE REGLEIN 
  TENOR 6J mpc. (same mouthpiece as a Metal Tenor Meyer 6J/7J )!

  I never could use any of these pieces, because I always ran out of 
  air.

  Yes, they do have a restricting throat now, but they are--very easy 
  blowing.  They do not have the feeling of air restriction.  The air 
  does not leak away and keeps the reed vibrating.  Before the 
  modification the air would be gone and the reed would stop!


  Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

  Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

  To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 

--- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "Toby" <kymarto@y...> wrote:
> Hi Tom,
> 
> Could you clarify a bit just where you placed the tubing? Is it 
freestanding in the middle of the mpc somehow or does it sit up 
against the inside walls of the throat to make that area smaller in 
diameter?
> 
> There is an interesting"accessory" for the flute headjoint which is 
essentially a brass rod which attaches to the inside of the head cork 
and runs all the way down the headjoint tube. It apparently has the 
characteristic of reducing the volume of the vibrating air without 
changing the effective diameter of the tubing. Perhaps I will try to 
do the same in a mpc by fitting a small rod in the center of the 
chamber and throat via small wires attached to the inside walls and 
see what happens....
> 
> Toby
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: tomheadly 
>   To: MouthpieceWork@y... 
>   Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 1:41 PM
>   Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Fix for problem of running out of air
> 
> 
>   Hi,
>   This fix is directed to Keith, who has been trying to tailor a 
RICO 
>   ROYAL METALLITE Soprano piece.  He says that he is getting a good 
>   sound, but he still finds the piece needing improvement, in 
>   playability.
> 
>   I bought the large tip model 11 (.075 inch).  It had a huge sound, 
but 
>   I could never supply enough air to keep the reed moving on long 
notes!
>   Well, I refaced it to a .056 tip, with .650 facing length.  It 
took me 
>   many trial and errors, to get what I wanted in response.  OK, now 
I 
>   have a great response, but this piece still needs an air 
compressor to 
>   supply enough air to play long notes??  Out of desperation, I 
inserted 
>   a piece of tygon tubing in the bore (1/2 inch long with a .030 to 
.040 
>   wall thickness).  This acted as a choke or throat.  The piece is 
>   perfect now, very easy blowing (no noticeable air restriction) and 
now 
>   I can sustain the long notes.
> 
>   Oh boy, I was so happy that I also placed a 3/8 inch long piece of 
>   tubing into MY CLAUDE LAKEY 6* (.075) Soprano piece ---- and a 3/8 
>   inch long piece of tubing into my METAL DESIGNED by EUGENE REGLEIN 
>   TENOR 6J mpc. (same mouthpiece as a Metal Tenor Meyer 6J/7J )!
> 
>   I never could use any of these pieces, because I always ran out of 
>   air.
> 
>   Yes, they do have a restricting throat now, but they are--very 
easy 
>   blowing.  They do not have the feeling of air restriction.  The 
air 
>   does not leak away and keeps the reed vibrating.  Before the 
>   modification the air would be gone and the reed would stop!

>Answer:  I inserted a sleeve.  Naturally I could not sleeve the full 
length of bore, because the piece would not be able to go on to the 
neck piece cork then.  I think that a sleeve 3/8 long is sufficient, 
however the sleeve in the Metallite was 1/2 inch long.  The 
compression of the tygon tubing provides enough friction to keep the
 tube in place.  Note the tube is inserted in the bore, up to the 
window, but not covering the window.  The bore diameter (of the 
mouthpiece) is reduced by 1/16, to 3/32 inch. at the formed throat, 
for 3/8 length.
David K 
> 
>   Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@y...
> 
>   Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to 
see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> 
>   To see and modify your groups, go to 
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject t

 "Hi Tom, Could you clarify a bit just where you placed the tubing? Is
it freestanding in the middle of the mpc somehow or does it sit up
against the inside walls of the throat to make that area smaller in
diameter?"

I had experimented with using small pieces of tubing, of various
lengths, with soprano sax mouthpieces.  I pushed them up from the shank
until they touched the throat area, in effect, lengthening the throat.
I did this to experiment with chamber volume vs. tuning.  I found I
could use this method to manipulate the length to volume ratio of the
mouthpiece, and affect the tuning of the upper end of the saxophone in
the palm key range.

Each time the tubing length was changed (changing the chamber volume)
the mouthpiece was carefully tuned, the sopranos C2 ("middle finger C")
to concert Bb.  Then I would see what effect this had on the pitch of C3
and above.  I found that when I obtained the "correct" mouthpiece
volume, that C2 to C3 could be played with good intonation with only
moving the octave key.  The palm key notes would fall into correct
intonation and respond well with minimal favoring, mostly just arching
the tongue slightly, as if play fork E and F on the alto, and the first
few altissimo notes, F#, G, G# on alto.

If chamber volume was too large (no tubing), the mouthpiece had to be
pushed farther onto the cork to tune C2.  This made C3 and the palm key
notes sharp.

Conversely, if the chamber volume was too small (too much tubing), the
mouthpiece was not pushed on the cork as far to tune C2, and C3 and the
palm keys would tend to be flat.

Paul

The Rico soprano mouthpiece is inherently problematic.  The chamber
volume is excessive.  The black ones, "Graftonite", are way too large,
the gray "Metalite" less so, due to the wedge on the baffle.  They must
be pushed way on the cork, sometimes all the way up to the top octave
vent, to tune the C2, then the high notes go way sharp.

These were the factory supplied mouthpieces with many of the Taiwan
sopranos, and greatly exacerbated the high end sharpness on those
saxes.  No one could play them with good intonation with those
mouthpieces.  Some importers threw them away and substituted other
mouthpieces, sometimes Yamaha, sometimes Runyon.

The tubing MAY correct some of the problems with the Rico, but this is
not a good mouthpiece to try to learn this craft... mouthpiece work.
There are other, better ones that have more normal chambers that are
better.  One good subject would be the Yamaha.

Paul



tomheadly wrote:

>  --- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "Toby" <kymarto@y...> wrote:
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > Could you clarify a bit just where you placed the tubing? Is it
> freestanding in the middle of the mpc somehow or does it sit up
> against the inside walls of the throat to make that area smaller in
> diameter?
> >
> > There is an interesting"accessory" for the flute headjoint which is
> essentially a brass rod which attaches to the inside of the head cork
> and runs all the way down the headjoint tube. It apparently has the
> characteristic of reducing the volume of the vibrating air without
> changing the effective diameter of the tubing. Perhaps I will try to
> do the same in a mpc by fitting a small rod in the center of the
> chamber and throat via small wires attached to the inside walls and
> see what happens....
> >
> > Toby
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: tomheadly
> >   To: MouthpieceWork@y...
> >   Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 1:41 PM
> >   Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Fix for problem of running out of air
> >
> >
> >   Hi,
> >   This fix is directed to Keith, who has been trying to tailor a
> RICO
> >   ROYAL METALLITE Soprano piece.  He says that he is getting a good
> >   sound, but he still finds the piece needing improvement, in
> >   playability.
> >
> >   I bought the large tip model 11 (.075 inch).  It had a huge sound,
>
> but
> >   I could never supply enough air to keep the reed moving on long
> notes!
> >   Well, I refaced it to a .056 tip, with .650 facing length.  It
> took me
> >   many trial and errors, to get what I wanted in response.  OK, now
> I
> >   have a great response, but this piece still needs an air
> compressor to
> >   supply enough air to play long notes??  Out of desperation, I
> inserted
> >   a piece of tygon tubing in the bore (1/2 inch long with a .030 to
> .040
> >   wall thickness).  This acted as a choke or throat.  The piece is
> >   perfect now, very easy blowing (no noticeable air restriction) and
>
> now
> >   I can sustain the long notes.
> >
> >   Oh boy, I was so happy that I also placed a 3/8 inch long piece of
>
> >   tubing into MY CLAUDE LAKEY 6* (.075) Soprano piece ---- and a 3/8
>
> >   inch long piece of tubing into my METAL DESIGNED by EUGENE REGLEIN
>
> >   TENOR 6J mpc. (same mouthpiece as a Metal Tenor Meyer 6J/7J )!
> >
> >   I never could use any of these pieces, because I always ran out of
>
> >   air.
> >
> >   Yes, they do have a restricting throat now, but they are--very
> easy
> >   blowing.  They do not have the feeling of air restriction.  The
> air
> >   does not leak away and keeps the reed vibrating.  Before the
> >   modification the air would be gone and the reed would stop!
>
> >Answer:  I inserted a sleeve.  Naturally I could not sleeve the full
> length of bore, because the piece would not be able to go on to the
> neck piece cork then.  I think that a sleeve 3/8 long is sufficient,
> however the sleeve in the Metallite was 1/2 inch long.  The
> compression of the tygon tubing provides enough friction to keep the
> tube in place.  Note the tube is inserted in the bore, up to the
> window, but not covering the window.  The bore diameter (of the
> mouthpiece) is reduced by 1/16, to 3/32 inch. at the formed throat,
> for 3/8 length.
> David K
> >
> >   Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@y...
> >
> >   Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to
> see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> >
> >   To see and modify your groups, go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> >
> >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject t
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.

--- In MouthpieceWork@y..., Paul Coats <tenorman@t...> wrote:
> The Rico soprano mouthpiece is inherently problematic.  The chamber
> volume is excessive...

I have not measured a Sop Graphtonite.  The volume of a Metalite is 
about 7.6 ml.  I have measured playable sop MPs from 6.5 ml to 8 ml.  
These are water volume measurements without subtracting the amount of 
the piece on the neck cork.

I was having a problem with a M7.  It was never an lung air problem 
with me.  I play bari so if anything I have too much air for 
soprano.  The palm keys were flat using it on my curved Musica sop.  
So I made a bullet chamber out of the baffle and shortened the shank 
to allow pushing it on farther.  This helped some.  Now the volume 
measures 7.3 ml.  I picked up an M5 and I'm having a better results 
with using it and harder reeds.  

I like the sound of the Metalite but I agree with Paul that these are 
wacky mouthpieces to work on and with.

The poorest feature of the Rico mouthpieces is the lack of real baffle.
The mouthpiece is made such that the facing is not machined on.

Most mouthpieces require some hand work to flow the baffle smoothly into
the tip rail, to allow for various tip openings.  However, the facings
of the Ricos are molded on.  There is no hand work whatsoever.  They
come out of the mold needing only to be stamped with the name and size.
To allow for this production method, the facing part of the mold is a
separate piece.

This causes the Rico mouthpiece to have more resistance than it would if
it had a good baffle.  However, the alto, tenor, and bari play
surprisingly good, in spite of this.  The Metalites are a lot of bang
for the buck.  I think anything over a 5 (or maybe 7) is probably too
big for most high school students for jazz band.  The 3's and 5's are
the only sizes suitable for concert band.

Due to the way the baffle is made, these are not really good candidates
for refacing work, but they are good test beds for chamber work.

If you really want to be scientific, you need to use the same piece for
all your experiments.  The Yamaha 4C that comes with most of the student
model saxes is one good candidate.  The Bundy Special Plastic model can
be bought from WW&BW for only $5 or $6.  These are both pretty good
mouthpieces to begin with.

Paul

Paul

Keith Bradbury wrote:

>  --- In MouthpieceWork@y..., Paul Coats <tenorman@t...> wrote:
> > The Rico soprano mouthpiece is inherently problematic.  The chamber
> > volume is excessive...
>
> I have not measured a Sop Graphtonite.  The volume of a Metalite is
> about 7.6 ml.  I have measured playable sop MPs from 6.5 ml to 8 ml.
> These are water volume measurements without subtracting the amount of
> the piece on the neck cork.
>
> I was having a problem with a M7.  It was never an lung air problem
> with me.  I play bari so if anything I have too much air for
> soprano.  The palm keys were flat using it on my curved Musica sop.
> So I made a bullet chamber out of the baffle and shortened the shank
> to allow pushing it on farther.  This helped some.  Now the volume
> measures 7.3 ml.  I picked up an M5 and I'm having a better results
> with using it and harder reeds.
>
> I like the sound of the Metalite but I agree with Paul that these are
> wacky mouthpieces to work on and with.
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.

Now hold, I say, hold on a second there, son.

I have both a Rico Graftonite B7 and Metalite M9 for soprano.  While I don't
play either as my main mpc (an even cheaper BARI Esprit wins that dubious
honor), I don't find them to be the pieces of junk that some make them out
to be.  Intonation is an issue with the Graftonite, but it's better than my
Vandoren S35 (which suffers from being too short in length, imho).  With
sopranos, I think the make of the horn has as much to do with intonation
issues as anything else.  I never have to shove either Rico mpc on so far as
to make contact with the octave key.  In fact, I couldn't if I wanted to.
The end of the neck pipe contacts the throat of either Rico mpc with about
3/16" of cork to spare.  I play a Woodwind and Brasswind soprano.

I also have a Graftonite A7 and Metalite M9 for tenor.  They both play very
well.  The only gripe I have with their design is that the rails are too
wide.

And before you say to yourself, "This dipstick has probably never played
anything else other than a C*"...I've played a very fine Florida Link STM 7*
on tenor for many years, so I know how the high-priced spread tastes.

btw, Paul, when you said the facings were molded on to the Ricos, did you
mean the baffles?  My Ricos all have what appear to be machining marks on
the facings.

Different strokes...

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Coats" <tenorman@...>
To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Fix for problem of running out of air


> The poorest feature of the Rico mouthpieces is the lack of real baffle.
> The mouthpiece is made such that the facing is not machined on.
>
> Most mouthpieces require some hand work to flow the baffle smoothly into
> the tip rail, to allow for various tip openings.  However, the facings
> of the Ricos are molded on.  There is no hand work whatsoever.  They
> come out of the mold needing only to be stamped with the name and size.
> To allow for this production method, the facing part of the mold is a
> separate piece.
>
> This causes the Rico mouthpiece to have more resistance than it would if
> it had a good baffle.  However, the alto, tenor, and bari play
> surprisingly good, in spite of this.  The Metalites are a lot of bang
> for the buck.  I think anything over a 5 (or maybe 7) is probably too
> big for most high school students for jazz band.  The 3's and 5's are
> the only sizes suitable for concert band.
>
> Due to the way the baffle is made, these are not really good candidates
> for refacing work, but they are good test beds for chamber work.
>
> If you really want to be scientific, you need to use the same piece for
> all your experiments.  The Yamaha 4C that comes with most of the student
> model saxes is one good candidate.  The Bundy Special Plastic model can
> be bought from WW&BW for only $5 or $6.  These are both pretty good
> mouthpieces to begin with.
>
> Paul
>
> Paul
>
> Keith Bradbury wrote:
>
> >  --- In MouthpieceWork@y..., Paul Coats <tenorman@t...> wrote:
> > > The Rico soprano mouthpiece is inherently problematic.  The chamber
> > > volume is excessive...
> >
> > I have not measured a Sop Graphtonite.  The volume of a Metalite is
> > about 7.6 ml.  I have measured playable sop MPs from 6.5 ml to 8 ml.
> > These are water volume measurements without subtracting the amount of
> > the piece on the neck cork.
> >
> > I was having a problem with a M7.  It was never an lung air problem
> > with me.  I play bari so if anything I have too much air for
> > soprano.  The palm keys were flat using it on my curved Musica sop.
> > So I made a bullet chamber out of the baffle and shortened the shank
> > to allow pushing it on farther.  This helped some.  Now the volume
> > measures 7.3 ml.  I picked up an M5 and I'm having a better results
> > with using it and harder reeds.
> >
> > I like the sound of the Metalite but I agree with Paul that these are
> > wacky mouthpieces to work on and with.
> >
> >
> > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> > MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> >
> > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> --
> Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":
>
>   http://www.saxontheweb.net
>
> or directly to Paul's articles at:
>
>   http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/
>
> Listen to Paul's MP3's at:
>
>                 http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
>
> and view photos.
>
>

Surprisingly, a Graftonite B5 played pretty well on my old Mk VI
soprano, but not on any other soprano.


> I also have a Graftonite A7 and Metalite M9 for tenor.  They both play
> very
> well.  The only gripe I have with their design is that the rails are
> too
> wide.

Yes, the Ricos for the larger saxes seem to play pretty well.

And before you say to yourself, "This dipstick has probably never played

> anything else other than a C*"...I've played a very fine Florida Link
> STM 7*
> on tenor for many years, so I know how the high-priced spread tastes.

Aww, Mike, I know you better than that!  Hah!

btw, Paul, when you said the facings were molded on to the Ricos, did
you

> mean the baffles?  My Ricos all have what appear to be machining marks
> on
> the facings.

Yes, that whole table and facing part is molded on.

Paul

I have yet to play a reasonable Rico mpc, they all seem to lack in the areas
of intonation unless strange embouchure gymnastics are practised, the sound
is harsh and rather unpleasant to my ear at least and a lot of them are
poorly finished. At least the Yamaha 4C is a known quantity.
Just some thoughts.
Later
God Bless
Bootman
Richard Booth
www.bootmanmusic.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Paul Coats [mailto:tenorman@...]
  Sent: Monday, 25 November 2002 9:11 AM
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Fix for problem of running out of air


  The poorest feature of the Rico mouthpieces is the lack of real baffle.
The mouthpiece is made such that the facing is not machined on.
  Most mouthpieces require some hand work to flow the baffle smoothly into
the tip rail, to allow for various tip openings.  However, the facings of
the Ricos are molded on.  There is no hand work whatsoever.  They come out
of the mold needing only to be stamped with the name and size.  To allow for
this production method, the facing part of the mold is a separate piece.

  This causes the Rico mouthpiece to have more resistance than it would if
it had a good baffle.  However, the alto, tenor, and bari play surprisingly
good, in spite of this.  The Metalites are a lot of bang for the buck.  I
think anything over a 5 (or maybe 7) is probably too big for most high
school students for jazz band.  The 3's and 5's are the only sizes suitable
for concert band.

  Due to the way the baffle is made, these are not really good candidates
for refacing work, but they are good test beds for chamber work.

  If you really want to be scientific, you need to use the same piece for
all your experiments.  The Yamaha 4C that comes with most of the student
model saxes is one good candidate.  The Bundy Special Plastic model can be
bought from WW&BW for only $5 or $6.  These are both pretty good mouthpieces
to begin with.

  Paul

  Paul

  Keith Bradbury wrote:

     --- In MouthpieceWork@y..., Paul Coats <tenorman@t...> wrote:
    > The Rico soprano mouthpiece is inherently problematic.  The chamber
    > volume is excessive...
    I have not measured a Sop Graphtonite.  The volume of a Metalite is
    about 7.6 ml.  I have measured playable sop MPs from 6.5 ml to 8 ml.
    These are water volume measurements without subtracting the amount of
    the piece on the neck cork.

    I was having a problem with a M7.  It was never an lung air problem
    with me.  I play bari so if anything I have too much air for
    soprano.  The palm keys were flat using it on my curved Musica sop.
    So I made a bullet chamber out of the baffle and shortened the shank
    to allow pushing it on farther.  This helped some.  Now the volume
    measures 7.3 ml.  I picked up an M5 and I'm having a better results
    with using it and harder reeds.

    I like the sound of the Metalite but I agree with Paul that these are
    wacky mouthpieces to work on and with.


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Bootman says>>>I have yet to play a reasonable Rico mpc...

I think the Bari Sax Metalites are the best of the RR bunch.  All the
Graftonite and Metalite facings usually measure very uniform and without
blemishes.  In a field of inexpensive mouthpieces, I've had clients most
often choose a Metalite, Graftonite or some type of "stock" Runyon (like an
88).  

For a mass produced MP, I think the are "finished" well.  Actually, I do
not think they are finished at all but they come out of the molding process
not needing finish work to compete with other mass produced pieces.

I'm still not sure about the Metalite on soprano long term, but I am giving
it a fair shake.  I like the large feel in the mouth.  I like the sound,
but I need to hit the tuner and play along with Band-In-A-Box to see if I
can deal with the intonation.  Its just not a real high priority for me
now.  Maybe over the holidays.

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>In a field of inexpensive mouthpieces, I've had clients most
>often choose a Metalite, Graftonite or some type of "stock" Runyon

The BARI Esprit is also a very good inexpensive mouthpiece, especially on 
soprano.

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