I ordered a Morgan Refacing Kit from WW&BW in early July.. Have been 
following up every few wks & kept getting the responce "Any day now" 
etc.,etc... Today I expressed a little frustration with the service 
Dept., demanding a little better answer.. Finally learned the Morgan 
Kit will no longer be available... Same with the "Winslow Kit".. No 
longer available... Called International Music Supply.. Nothing 
available. Called Ferree's, they have a one year waiting list... Help!
Any advice? Anyone want to sell bits & pieces  Thanks & regards, Ron

Ron,
The only things you need to reface a mouthpiece are:
a) A flat place of thick plate glass;
b) Wet-or-dry silicon carbide sandpaper, grits 400, 600 and maybe 1000 or
2000;
c) A keen eye, a steady hand, and a few thousand botched refacing jobs
behind you.

No kits needed.
      Dave Spiegelthal
      Calverton, VA
      spiegelthal.dave@...
___________________________________________________________________________


I ordered a Morgan Refacing Kit from WW&BW in early July.. Have been
following up every few wks & kept getting the responce "Any day now"
etc.,etc... Today I expressed a little frustration with the service
Dept., demanding a little better answer.. Finally learned the Morgan
Kit will no longer be available... Same with the "Winslow Kit".. No
longer available... Called International Music Supply.. Nothing
available. Called Ferree's, they have a one year waiting list... Help!
Any advice? Anyone want to sell bits & pieces  Thanks & regards, Ron

Ron,

I like Dave's advice and, although I like playing around with a lot 
of tools and related stuff, minimalism makes a lot of sense, 
especially to start out.  Cheap MPCs can sometimes be plucked off 
eBay - at least generic ones, with little or no intrinstic value, if 
you need to find ones to work on, in the beginning.

J.J. Babbitt does still sell and have available mouthpiece kits for 
$215 (if I remember correctly).  They also have separate tip gauges 
and other stuff available.  Call and talk with Jim Green, to get more 
information on this.  Here's part of what I ordered from them a few 
months ago:

Jim Green
J.J. Babbitt
P.O. Box 1264
Elkhart, Indiana 46515
574-293-0805
574-293-6514

1 wide, setback, millimeter scale, glass gauge, to measure mouthpiece 
facings @$15

1 mouthpiece tip gauge set @$30

Shipping & Handling @$5

There may be more information about contacting Jim Green or Babbitt 
in a spreadsheet I loaded to this website a few months ago.  Look in 
the files, listed under tools for additional details of what I've 
summarized from early postings here.

These days, I'm playing in 4 community groups, a sax ensemble, and 
forming a bari trio so I'm not really active here.  The folks who 
active here will steer you onto the right path and are a great help 
along the way.

My playing is a retirement thing for me, something which I don't 
expect to turn a buck from but absolutely love doing and would never 
have imagined possible.  And, I bailed out of searching for or 
refacing MPCs on my own once I played one of Phil Barone's vintage 
tenors and have switched over to his MPCs for my SOP, alto, and 
tenor.  I'm sticking with a Meyer for my bari, at the present time, 
and am still experimenting on what I prefer for my clarinet, working 
with Morgan MPCs since I live just a short distance from Ralph.  
Previously, I've been a Selmer C* player on saxes and a B45 player on 
clarinets.

Wishing you the best in this endeavor,
Jim

> c) A keen eye, a steady hand, and a few thousand botched refacing 
jobs behind you.

There are a few people that can get some good results without gages.  
But I think this is a poor strategy.  Gauges help in so many ways.  
They will minimize the number of botched jobs.

See the earlier posts archived on the Mouthpiece Works site for ways 
of assembling your own "kit".  It is not difficult to do and you will 
probably save some $ doing it yourself.

Have you tried contacting Ralph Morgan or John Winslow directly?

     Hi Guys.. Thank you for your input.. I appreciate it.. 
I've got a glass plate & different types of sandpaper, files, etc.. 
I've done some rail leveling, etc.. I really wanted the glass 
measuring plate so I could measure & record (accuratly) the facing 
curve & length.. I'm a E-Bay mpc junkie, got a ton of stuff to play 
with.. I really appreciate Jimreeds info.. Just what I was looking 
for. I'll call Jim Green (at Babbitt)Monday... Thank you all for your 
input..                                                         
Thanks & Regards, 
Ron                                                                   
     -- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "rrogo20999" <rrogo20999@a...> wrote:
> --- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@y...> 
wrote:
> > > c) A keen eye, a steady hand, and a few thousand botched 
refacing 
> > jobs behind you.
> > 
> > There are a few people that can get some good results without 
> gages.  
> > But I think this is a poor strategy.  Gauges help in so many 
ways.  
> > They will minimize the number of botched jobs.
> > 
> > See the earlier posts archived on the Mouthpiece Works site for 
> ways 
> > of assembling your own "kit".  It is not difficult to do and you 
> will 
> > probably save some $ doing it yourself.
> > 
> > Have you tried contacting Ralph Morgan or John Winslow directly?

Yesterday I refaced a Rico Royal C5 that I had "had a go at" a few 
months ago (and made unplayable). I was trying to reface it to about 
80 thou, but I got the rails uneven, so it wouldn't work. Yesterday I 
borrowed some feeler gauges from someone at work (I really should 
find my own, wherever they've gone to) and put the mpcc onto my piece 
of tile that I use (instead of a glass plate) for any reed/mpc work. 
From there I slid the feelers under the facing a few times to make a 
mark on each of the rails. If they were even, I didn't adjust 
anything. If they were uneven, I removed material from the side that 
the feelers marked the facing closest to the tip. This has got the 
mouthpiece working again (and it's now at about 75 thou tip gap), and 
the next step is to grind out the baffle and chamber, and then put a 
proper facing curve onto it.

So... How much did my tools cost (these are all $Australian)?
Flat, smooth tile: $0.50 from a building supplies salvage store.
Sandpaper (330 grit, 600 grit, 1200 grit): $1.00 each (I think...).
Feeler guages: $10.00 (I'm guessing there).
Small metal ruler (graduated in mm and 1/2 mm): $3.00

My next thing to do is to somehow graduate the tile somewhere so that 
it's easier to measure the facing (instead of sliding the feelers 
under, holding the mpc and feelers still with one hand while lining 
up the ruler with the other hand, trying to get it even with the tip 
of the mpc without moving anything, etc, etc, etc)...

Anyway, I hope this helps.

DB


--- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> > c) A keen eye, a steady hand, and a few thousand botched refacing 
> jobs behind you.
> 
> There are a few people that can get some good results without 
gages.  
> But I think this is a poor strategy.  Gauges help in so many ways.  
> They will minimize the number of botched jobs.
> 
> See the earlier posts archived on the Mouthpiece Works site for 
ways 
> of assembling your own "kit".  It is not difficult to do and you 
will 
> probably save some $ doing it yourself.
> 
> Have you tried contacting Ralph Morgan or John Winslow directly?

--- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "rrogo20999" <rrogo20999@a...> wrote:
> I ordered a Morgan Refacing Kit from WW&BW in early July.. Have 
Finally learned the Morgan 
> Kit will no longer be available... 

I sincerely hope this is not what WW/BW told you.  The Morgan kits 
are currently unavailable, BUT...  The kits are in period of 
retooling, remaking the technology that creates the tapered tip 
wands.  We have a working prototype, so it will not be long.  WW/BW 
has many standing orders with the Morgan shop, as does Ferree's and 
other places.  We're just waiting on the tip wands, and then 
hopefully we'll fill all these backorders, but they will be 
available!!!
And I hope you realize that not needing measuring tools is a simple 
fallacy, if you actually want to apply a correct and working facing.  
Plain and simple.  Just having a good eye isn't going to produce 
results.  I could change just one spot along a curve merely say less 
than a thousandth of an inch and change a lot about the piece and the 
way it plays and responds, and you'd never be able to see it, but you 
sure could feel it.  But if you don't measure, specifically and 
precisely, and know how each spot along the curve works and where to 
find problems, you're waging a losing battle if you want to maximize 
a piece's potential.  
Just my 2 cents,
Brian

Your response about the Morgan kits imply you work with Morgan.

If so, would you tell us about what you do?

-Hi all,, Thanks to all who responded to my initial post..Greatly 
appreciated. I called Jim Green @ J.J. Babbitt on Monday. He was very 
helpfull. I ordered one of several glass measuring plates, set of 
rail curve gauges. He didn't have the tapered wand tip guage, so I 
ordered what he had, tip gauges to cover the full spectrum of tip 
openings. All Clarinets, Sax's etc... Total was $ 85.00 I suppose a 
Micrometer would work for the tip openings, but what the heck.. I 
already own the Brand repair Manual with the section on refacing.. 
Can't wait...    Thanks again,  
Ron                                   -- In 
MouthpieceWork@y..., "rrogo20999" <rrogo20999@a...> wrote:
>      Hi Guys.. Thank you for your input.. I appreciate it.. 
> I've got a glass plate & different types of sandpaper, files, etc.. 
> I've done some rail leveling, etc.. I really wanted the glass 
> measuring plate so I could measure & record (accuratly) the facing 
> curve & length.. I'm a E-Bay mpc junkie, got a ton of stuff to play 
> with.. I really appreciate Jimreeds info.. Just what I was looking 
> for. I'll call Jim Green (at Babbitt)Monday... Thank you all for 
your 
> input..                                                         
> Thanks & Regards, 
> 
Ron                                                                   
>      -- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "rrogo20999" <rrogo20999@a...> 
wrote:
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@y...> 
> wrote:
> > > > c) A keen eye, a steady hand, and a few thousand botched 
> refacing 
> > > jobs behind you.
> > > 
> > > There are a few people that can get some good results without 
> > gages.  
> > > But I think this is a poor strategy.  Gauges help in so many 
> ways.  
> > > They will minimize the number of botched jobs.
> > > 
> > > See the earlier posts archived on the Mouthpiece Works site for 
> > ways 
> > > of assembling your own "kit".  It is not difficult to do and 
you 
> > will 
> > > probably save some $ doing it yourself.
> > > 
> > > Have you tried contacting Ralph Morgan or John Winslow directly?

>>>I ordered one of several glass measuring plates, set of 
rail curve gauges. He didn't have the tapered wand tip guage, so I 
ordered what he had, tip gauges to cover the full spectrum of tip 
openings. <<<

Good.  Please report back to us the details of what you are getting.  What
sizes of feeler guages, etc.  What is the difference between the tip wand
gauge and the tip gauges you are getting?

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

This is why you need a proper glass gauge.

The technique to even the rails... well, you can't put material back on
the high rail, you can only remove the low spots.

Determine which rail needs material to be removed.  Make sure you have
the correct rail identified when you turn the mouthpiece over to sand
it!!!

Put down a piece of 600 or 800 grit silicon carbide paper grit side up
under the rail from which you want to remove material.  Put down another
piece of the same paper grit side down under the other rail.  This way,
the rails are parallel to the paper and glass underneath.

Just try to remove material in the area of the curve where it is
uneven.    When it is all done, you can smooth it out with one or two
light strokes on 800 or 1000 paper over the whole facing curve.

Paul



Danny Barrett wrote:

>  Yesterday I refaced a Rico Royal C5 that I had "had a go at" a few
> months ago (and made unplayable). I was trying to reface it to about
> 80 thou, but I got the rails uneven, so it wouldn't work. Yesterday I
> borrowed some feeler gauges from someone at work (I really should
> find my own, wherever they've gone to) and put the mpcc onto my piece
> of tile that I use (instead of a glass plate) for any reed/mpc work.
> >From there I slid the feelers under the facing a few times to make a
> mark on each of the rails. If they were even, I didn't adjust
> anything. If they were uneven, I removed material from the side that
> the feelers marked the facing closest to the tip. This has got the
> mouthpiece working again (and it's now at about 75 thou tip gap), and
> the next step is to grind out the baffle and chamber, and then put a
> proper facing curve onto it.
>
> So... How much did my tools cost (these are all $Australian)?
> Flat, smooth tile: $0.50 from a building supplies salvage store.
> Sandpaper (330 grit, 600 grit, 1200 grit): $1.00 each (I think...).
> Feeler guages: $10.00 (I'm guessing there).
> Small metal ruler (graduated in mm and 1/2 mm): $3.00
>
> My next thing to do is to somehow graduate the tile somewhere so that
> it's easier to measure the facing (instead of sliding the feelers
> under, holding the mpc and feelers still with one hand while lining
> up the ruler with the other hand, trying to get it even with the tip
> of the mpc without moving anything, etc, etc, etc)...
>
> Anyway, I hope this helps.
>
> DB
>
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> > > c) A keen eye, a steady hand, and a few thousand botched refacing
> > jobs behind you.
> >
> > There are a few people that can get some good results without
> gages.
> > But I think this is a poor strategy.  Gauges help in so many ways.
> > They will minimize the number of botched jobs.
> >
> > See the earlier posts archived on the Mouthpiece Works site for
> ways
> > of assembling your own "kit".  It is not difficult to do and you
> will
> > probably save some $ doing it yourself.
> >
> > Have you tried contacting Ralph Morgan or John Winslow directly?
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.

I've cleared out the chamber and refaced it using a circular arc as 
my curve. It's a lot better to listen to now, but yet more 
experimentation to be done.
:-)

DB

--- In MouthpieceWork@y..., Paul Coats <tenorman@t...> wrote:
> This is why you need a proper glass gauge.
> 
> The technique to even the rails... well, you can't put material 
back on
> the high rail, you can only remove the low spots.
> 
> Determine which rail needs material to be removed.  Make sure you 
have
> the correct rail identified when you turn the mouthpiece over to 
sand
> it!!!
> 
> Put down a piece of 600 or 800 grit silicon carbide paper grit side 
up
> under the rail from which you want to remove material.  Put down 
another
> piece of the same paper grit side down under the other rail.  This 
way,
> the rails are parallel to the paper and glass underneath.
> 
> Just try to remove material in the area of the curve where it is
> uneven.    When it is all done, you can smooth it out with one or 
two
> light strokes on 800 or 1000 paper over the whole facing curve.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> Danny Barrett wrote:
> 
> >  Yesterday I refaced a Rico Royal C5 that I had "had a go at" a 
few
> > months ago (and made unplayable). I was trying to reface it to 
about
> > 80 thou, but I got the rails uneven, so it wouldn't work. 
Yesterday I
> > borrowed some feeler gauges from someone at work (I really should
> > find my own, wherever they've gone to) and put the mpcc onto my 
piece
> > of tile that I use (instead of a glass plate) for any reed/mpc 
work.
> > >From there I slid the feelers under the facing a few times to 
make a
> > mark on each of the rails. If they were even, I didn't adjust
> > anything. If they were uneven, I removed material from the side 
that
> > the feelers marked the facing closest to the tip. This has got the
> > mouthpiece working again (and it's now at about 75 thou tip gap), 
and
> > the next step is to grind out the baffle and chamber, and then 
put a
> > proper facing curve onto it.
> >
> > So... How much did my tools cost (these are all $Australian)?
> > Flat, smooth tile: $0.50 from a building supplies salvage store.
> > Sandpaper (330 grit, 600 grit, 1200 grit): $1.00 each (I 
think...).
> > Feeler guages: $10.00 (I'm guessing there).
> > Small metal ruler (graduated in mm and 1/2 mm): $3.00
> >
> > My next thing to do is to somehow graduate the tile somewhere so 
that
> > it's easier to measure the facing (instead of sliding the feelers
> > under, holding the mpc and feelers still with one hand while 
lining
> > up the ruler with the other hand, trying to get it even with the 
tip
> > of the mpc without moving anything, etc, etc, etc)...
> >
> > Anyway, I hope this helps.
> >
> > DB
> >
> >
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@y...> 
wrote:
> > > > c) A keen eye, a steady hand, and a few thousand botched 
refacing
> > > jobs behind you.
> > >
> > > There are a few people that can get some good results without
> > gages.
> > > But I think this is a poor strategy.  Gauges help in so many 
ways.
> > > They will minimize the number of botched jobs.
> > >
> > > See the earlier posts archived on the Mouthpiece Works site for
> > ways
> > > of assembling your own "kit".  It is not difficult to do and you
> > will
> > > probably save some $ doing it yourself.
> > >
> > > Have you tried contacting Ralph Morgan or John Winslow directly?
> >
> >
> > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> > MouthpieceWork@y...
> >
> > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to 
see
> > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> >
> > To see and modify your groups, go to 
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service.
> 
> --
> Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":
> 
>   http://www.saxontheweb.net
> 
> or directly to Paul's articles at:
> 
>   http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/
> 
> Listen to Paul's MP3's at:
> 
>                 http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
> 
> and view photos.