The following is the best I'm able to group all the tools and 
supplies discussed to date, using Keith's suggested categories.  This 
information is followed by what I have decided to start with as my 
basic MPC kit, to begin measuring and refacing with.  This 
information has been heavily influenced by Paul and Keith, as well as 
others, all of whom I am very grateful to for your suggestions and 
advice.

Any misinterpretations or misunderstandings are solely the delight of 
my own inner child.  A comment, I think I remember, from Phil, about 
chamber or bore work fascinates the dark side of me but I'm jumping 
in deep enough, for the moment, with just measuring and simple 
refacing work for the moment.  Any additional comments or feedback 
will continue to be appreciated.  And, please excuse me for eating up 
so much bandwidth with a couple iterations of sorting though all this 
but, with all due apologies, I'm not altogether very mechanically 
oriented, so to speak.

MEASUREMENT & ANALYSIS TOOLS & SUPPLIES
Calipers:  vernier, dial, or digital
Dial Indicator:  a depth indicator w/ half type bar vs. full bar 
(like the Winslow gauge) to measure mouthpiece tip opening
Notebook:  record & track measurement & MPC work; research diary
File system:  store articles, MPC records, etc.
PC or MAC:  plot facing curves, etc.
Feeler Gauges:
    J. Winslow 
prefs:  .0015, .010, .014, .024, .031, .048, .063, .077, .094 
(also .020)
    K. Bradbury 
prefs: .0015, .005, .0095, .0165, .0245, .033, .0485, .065, .079, .095
5, .125
	E.A. Brand & C. Forbes prefs:  .0015, .010, .024, .034, .050
	get several of the thin ones:  .015, .020, etc. as they bend 
easily
	stainless steel is preferred
Glass Gauge(s):
	narrow like a reed width; setback zero or flush; metric or 
inches
	wide (1"); setback zero or flush; metric or inches
	available in Winslow & Morgan kits and directly from J.J. 
Babbitt
Tip Opening Gauge:  "a.k.a. wand, taper, curved tip gauge"
	glass ones available from J.J. Babbitt in various 
scales/sizes; 260 vs. 280 and maybe other options
	curved, stainless steel tip opening gauge in Morgan kit
Ruler:  6" steel, probably a couple which also include metrics

FACING TOOLS & SUPPLIES (the basic kit stuff)		
Surface Plate:  smooth surface to work on, either glass or granite
	thick, beveled, glass surface plate:  9" x 6" x 3/8" or try 
9" x 11" x 3/8"
	granite block, large, level to 15/10,000ths
	granite, pink, Starrett Grade AA surface plate
Mouthpieces:  NEVER work on your favorite MPC first!!!  Then, have a 
backup MPC for it, JUST IN CASE?  Try starting with Zinner blanks or 
Runyon Model 22's (student models)
Files:
	small, half round file for baffles, about ¼" wide, flat on 
one side, and rounded on the other
	set of 10" coarse needle files; can 5" files be substituted???
	set of 5 tungsten carbide files for metal MPC work; what 
about diamond coated files???
	Riffler files; curved, fine files
	need some smaller & narrower files than in Madison kit
File Card:  a type of brush for cleaning files
Marker:
	scriber to mark pieces being worked on
	magic marker to mark spots to start working on the facing
Abrasives:
	fine wet and dry (black) sandpaper or silicon carbide paper:  
220, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1500 grit
	steel wool "0000" for cosmetic chamber and exterior work
	crocus cloth (extremely fine, 1200 grit?)
Homemade Tools:
	See MouthpieceWork discussions for suggestions (see example 
Santy Runyon & Paul Coats, Msg #60)
	chamois, leather, cork, popsicle sticks or old reeds, plastic 
sticks from hobby stores, sandpaper, glue
Polish:
	auto polish #7 to finish the chamber.
	Kit Scratch-Out (shine up an older MPC) for 
plexiglass/plastics, from an auto store

EPOXY WORK (baffles, tip repairs)
Epoxies; some are putties, some are glues
Malleable wax substance to make impressions of chambers
Plaster of Paris to make negative casts of wax impressions
Resin for casting baffles
Epoxies:
	Hobbypoxy by Pettit Paint 5 min type hardens in 15 min 
(+several other types/times)
	epoxy pigments, tinted
	Atlas Plumber's Epoxy
	Ferree's Jet Black
	 J.B. Weld
	Milliput is moldable and comes in various colors
	PC-11 Marine Epoxy
Glues:
	E6000 craft glue (Alene's 7800 in craft stores and Goop 
Automotive Sealant & Adhesive)
	gel type CA glue (mostly for producing hand-made tools for 
baffle & chamber work)
Putties:
	Devcon 5-min.
	gray epoxybond plumber's putty
	Oatey Epoxy Putty
	poster hanging putty (Sticky-Tack [sp?] and DAP Fun Tak)
Plastiline:  Super Sculpey (oil-based clay)
Putty Knives	
Rubber Casting Materials to make baffle molds
Homemade Tools:
	See MouthpieceWork discussions for suggestions (see example 
Santy Runyon & Paul Coats, Msg #60)
	chamois, leather, cork, popsicle sticks or old reeds, plastic 
sticks from hobby stores, sandpaper, glue

MAJOR CHAMBER WORK (flex shaft tool)		
Rotary Tool:  flex shaft rig for chamber work; Dremel or something 
similar
Bench Stand	
Flexible Shaft	
Rotary Burr:  file-like
Foot Control	
Grinding Wheel:  3/4" diameter x 1/8" thick
Bore or Chamber Reamers:  are these something adapted from general 
tool and die work???
Goggles	
Homemade Tools:
See MouthpieceWork discussions for suggestions (example from Santy 
Runyon & Paul Coats, Msg #60)
	chamois, leather, cork, popsicle sticks or old reeds, plastic 
sticks from hobby stores, sandpaper, glue

WORK SPACE:  Workbench dedicated to MPC work

MANUALS
	Ralph Morgan's Instruction Booklet	
	The Band Instrument Repair Manual by Erick D. Brand	
	The Saxophone Is My Voice by Ernest Ferron	
	The Winslow Kit Manual	

MISCELLANEOUS
Lighting:  reading the gauges requires decent lighting
Toolbox or MPC kit box such as a briefcase, tackle box, toolbox, or 
something similar to hold everything, if necessary or desirable
Hand Tools:  miscellaneous ones needed, as preferred by each 
individual MPC worker
MPC Patches:  clear or black, thick or thin, etc.
Vacuum:  shop or hand vs. household
Knives:  pocket or hobby knives, with small, sometimes curved blades 
for scraping, etc.
Rags:  old towels or similar rags to keep MPCs and working surfaces 
clean; shake them out frequently



REED'S GENERIC MPC REFACING KIT gleamed from the MouthpieceWork 
Discussion Group		
Basics
The Band Instrument Repair Manual by Erick D. Brand	
	1 glass direct reading gauge for measuring facings	
	Notebook to record & track measurement & MPC work; research 
diary	
	File system to store articles, MPC records, etc.
	Calipers:  dial or digital (maybe easier for reading with bi- 
or tri-focals)	
	Tip opening measurements:  Dial/Depth indicator w/ half type 
bar vs. full bar (like the Winslow gauge) OR tip opening, wand, 
taper, or curved tip gauge; stainless steel or glass in various 
scales & sizes
	Feeler Gauges, Stainless
	.0015, .010, .014, .020, .024, .031, .048, .063, .077, .094
		get several of the thin ones:  .015, .020, etc. as 
they bend easily
	Glass Gauge:  wide; setback zero; metric
	Surface Plate:  thick, beveled glass 9" x 6" x 3/8"
	Files
	small, half round file for baffles, about  ¼" wide, flat on 
one side, and rounded on the other
		set of coarse needle files, including some which are 
small and narrow
		Riffler or curved, fine files
	File Card	
	Abrasive papers:  fine, wet and dry (black) sandpaper or 
silicon carbide paper:  400, 600, 800, 1000 grit
	Magic marker	
	Polish:  Kit Scratch-Out (shine up an older MPC) for 
plexiglass/plastics, from an auto store

Extras
	Briefcase, tackle box, toolbox, or something similar to hold 
everything, if necessary or desirable
	PC or MAC to plot facing curves, etc.	
	6" steel ruler	
	Additional glass gauges:  narrow or wide, setback zero or 
flush, metric or inches
	Winslow or similar depth gauge/dial indicator if starting out 
with a curved tip gauge; the Winslow kit is backordered at WW&BW
	
	Granite surface plate	
	Set of 5 tungsten carbide files for metal MPC work	
	Scriber	
	MPC blanks vs. used ones	
	Abrasive papers	fine, wet and dry (black) sandpaper or 
silicon carbide paper:  220, 320, 1500 grit
	Steel Wool "0000" for cosmetic chamber and exterior work
	
	Crocus Cloth	
	Scriber	
	Knives	
	Homemade tools; stuff listed elsewhere	
Chamber and Baffle Work		
	Flex shaft or rotary tool and accessories	
	Goggles for working with power tools	
	Various epoxies, mold making materials, and tools, listed 
elsewhere
	Homemade tools; stuff listed elsewhere

>>>>>
Feeler Gauges:
    J. Winslow 
prefs:  .0015, .010, .014, .024, .031, .048, .063, .077, .094 
(also .020)
    K. Bradbury 
prefs: .0015, .005, .0095, .0165, .0245, .033, .0485, .065, .079, .095
5, .125
      E.A. Brand & C. Forbes prefs:  .0015, .010, .024, .034, .050
      get several of the thin ones:  .015, .020, etc. as they bend easily
<<<<<

You probably meant .0015, .002 for the "thin ones".

My odd-ball set of feelers came from looking over the spacings of feelers
in use and I put them in a spreadsheet.  Some of the conventional spacings
are really strange.  Winslows looks pretty good, but why go from .024 to
.031 then .048?   .031 is too close to .024.

So I came up with a set of target feelers.  After I got them together, I
measured them with my calipers in several spots on the edge that would be
used on the glass gage and wrote the thickness on them.  That is why I have
a .0095 instead of a .010.  A .0005" error is not a big deal, I just wanted
to know what I really had.  For the larger sizes, I taped several of the
smaller feelers together.  I do not recommend this but I do not have an
alternative inexpensive source for the sizes I need.  

I periodically remeasure the thickness of my feelers and get different
results by as much as .0015" on the taped up ones.  I just live with the
variation.

As Paul relayed from Winslow, the .0015" feeler could be .002".  This would
give about a 1 number lower reading (.5 mm) on the glass gage based on a
Tenor sax facing.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

I think the reason for the .031� gauge is that it is close to one of the
gauges in the old E. Brand kit.  Also, the .048� is close to the .050�
in the E. Brand kit.

The spread of sizes in the E. Brand is OK, but talking to John Winslow,
he felt adding the .014� gave an additional measurement in that critical
area of the break.

Paul.


>My odd-ball set of feelers came from looking over the spacings of
feelers
>in use and I put them in a spreadsheet.  Some of the conventional
spacings
>are really strange.  Winslows looks pretty good, but why go from .024
to
>.031 then .048?   .031 is too close to .024.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.

Winslow's logic to add the .014" is good.  But using .031" seems like a
poor choice as compared to .034".  It looks like he just really likes to
cluster readings around the "break" area.  I think better facings can be
made by spacing the readings out as I do.  But it is more work.  Perhaps
even overkill.  But I would rather err on the conservative side.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

He says along that break area is more critical.

And the sizes he uses translate to mm sizes.  I will read them off when
I get home.

Paul



Keith Bradbury wrote:

>  Winslow's logic to add the .014" is good.  But using .031" seems like
> a
> poor choice as compared to .034".  It looks like he just really likes
> to
> cluster readings around the "break" area.  I think better facings can
> be
> made by spacing the readings out as I do.  But it is more work.
> Perhaps
> even overkill.  But I would rather err on the conservative side.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> http://health.yahoo.com
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT

>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.