Here's the best I can figure out, looking at the 1939 Brand/Selmer 
manual and what info I have been able to come up with for the Morgan 
and Winslow kits.

E.A. Brand's 1939 Selmer Refacing Outfit - NO LONGER PRODUCED
1 large special glass surface plate
1 glass direct reading gauge
1 special tip opening gauge (taper gauge)
1 set of feeler gauges:  .0015, .010, .024, .034, .050
3 files
1 block white finish (to polish rubber)
1 piece chamois (to polish lays)
1 box to hold entire outfit
1 complete instruction book
a generous quantity of abrasive paper

The Winslow Mouthpiece & Reed Kit
1 booklet of instructions
1 thick glass surface plate:  9" x 6" x 3/8"
1 precision dial indicator and holder to measure reed thickness and 
mouthpiece tip opening
1 glass gauge for measuring facing
9 feeler 
gauges:  .0015, .010, .014, .024, .031,. .048, .063, .077, .094
silicon carbide abrasive paper, 400 and 600 grit
1 half round file for the baffle
3 new mouthpieces:  clarinet, alto sax, tenor sax

Morgan Mouthpiece Measuring Kit
1 curved stainless steel tip opening gauge
1 glass reading gauge
set of feeler gauges
velvet covered steel case
instruction booklet

Nice Comparison. A small point about the Winslow Kit. The listing for
the kit in the WW&BW catalog does say "one half round file for the
baffle" but one of the photos of the kit shows two files???





--- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "jimreed_45409" <jimreed_45409@y...> wrote:
> Here's the best I can figure out, looking at the 1939 Brand/Selmer
> manual and what info I have been able to come up with for the Morgan
> and Winslow kits.
>
> E.A. Brand's 1939 Selmer Refacing Outfit - NO LONGER PRODUCED
> 1 large special glass surface plate
> 1 glass direct reading gauge
> 1 special tip opening gauge (taper gauge)
> 1 set of feeler gauges:  .0015, .010, .024, .034, .050
> 3 files
> 1 block white finish (to polish rubber)
> 1 piece chamois (to polish lays)
> 1 box to hold entire outfit
> 1 complete instruction book
> a generous quantity of abrasive paper
>
> The Winslow Mouthpiece & Reed Kit
> 1 booklet of instructions
> 1 thick glass surface plate:  9" x 6" x 3/8"
> 1 precision dial indicator and holder to measure reed thickness and
> mouthpiece tip opening
> 1 glass gauge for measuring facing
> 9 feeler
> gauges:  .0015, .010, .014, .024, .031,. .048, .063, .077, .094
> silicon carbide abrasive paper, 400 and 600 grit
> 1 half round file for the baffle
> 3 new mouthpieces:  clarinet, alto sax, tenor sax
>
> Morgan Mouthpiece Measuring Kit
> 1 curved stainless steel tip opening gauge
> 1 glass reading gauge
> set of feeler gauges
> velvet covered steel case
> instruction booklet

Until I'm able to obtain a Winslow kit (currently back-ordered at 
WW&BW, as often happens with a lot of their merchandise) there's no 
way I can begin to guess at the discrepancy between the narrative 
description and the photo, regarding how many files are in the kit.

Luckily enough, my local library has a copy of the 1939 Brand/Selmer 
book so I was able to find out what was in that early kit, to get an 
idea of whether or not there's been much change between then and now.

Being somewhat concerned about how easy it may be for me to damage 
some feeler gauges, I've been looking at www.toolsource.com and 
www.snapon.com along with Yahoo! Shopping and have discovered there 
are more general feeler gauges available than I could begin to 
imagine.  It looks like all of the sizes mentioned here are 
relatively easy to obtain, for $3.95 and up, depending on whether or 
not a person wants to get fancy and use stainless steel.

The one critical and significant difference, from what I seem to be 
reading into looking at necessary MPC tools, is the innovation of 
Winslow's dial indicator gauge.  The bar holder is not something 
easily obtained and probably would have to be custom made, probably a 
costly consideration when this tool is already available in Winslow's 
kit.

The other tool difference seems to be what is referred to in a 
variety of terms in other kits and discussions:  special tip opening 
gauge, wand gauge, taper gauge, or curved tip gauge.  These gauges 
are difficult to obtain, reference some of Paul Coats' discussions.  
The only commercial source for these gauges, I have been able to 
discover so far, appears to be Babbitt and, although I've yet to call 
them, there are supposedly a couple of significant differences 
available in these tools; one being a 260 vs. 280 (length or size, I 
assume) and the other being inexpensive models for folks who don't 
feel the need for the precision of good professional gauges.

The glass guages used in MPC kits and refacing have been discussed 
previously by Keith, as coming in a variety of options:  narrow vs. 
wide, setback zero or flush, metric or inch units of measurement.  
For those with preferences for a glass gauge different than what's in 
the kits, it seems reasonable enough to obtain them for around $15 
each, directly from Babbitt.

Considering Brand's detailed description of mouthpiece work is still 
available in the 8th edition of his old manual, and can be purchased 
from Ferree's, it seems to me, given my tool preferences and the 
reinforcement of Paul Coats' discussions of his and Santy Runyon's 
preferences among kits, the Winslow kit appears to be the best kit 
for my money, unless I want to buy all the components separately and 
have a base or holder made for a dial gauge - an undertaking that 
probably would be more hassle than it's worth, for me.

At the extreme, I still may also consider the Morgan kit, as well, 
since I live only 15-20 miles from him and would like to spend some 
time with Mr. Morgan once I get a better idea of what's involved in 
working with MPCs, from my own hands-on experiences.  At the moment, 
this is just a passing fantasy and not anything I feel altogether 
certain about since I'm not one to like to intrude upon folks 
professional lives and activities unless we come to a reasonable 
agreement beforehand about what we're doing, such as exchanging 
information, data, experiences, and opinions as is so easily done 
online these days.

Jim says he lives fairly close to Ralph Morgan.

I would highly recommend that anyone who lives close to a mouthpiece maker
or refacer try to contact them for a visit.  I visited Bob Ackerman years
ago and he did some work for me which got me interested in the craft.  I
have tried to get with Theo but he has been too busy.

There is an awful lot that can be gleaned from watching someone actually do
the work.  Plus, you could set up a relationship for follow up questions. 
We could all benefit from what you learn.  Not all will be willing to do
this, but we've all been rejected before havn't we?.

Here is a list of names I have found of people who do refacing work.  Maybe
someone is near you.

John Reilly � LA CA
Jon Van Wie � NY state
Theo Wanne - Philly
Bob Ackerman � NJ
Doc Tenney -
Bob Carpenter � WA
Ralph Morgan (works on others?)
Phil Barone (works on others?)
Jey Clark � CA
Glen Johnston  - LA CA (deceased?)
Paul Coats - LA
Emil Anello � WI
David M. Cox � Detroit?
Larry Wyman � NY
Norbert Satchel � SF CA
John Yokum � LA CA?
Freddie Gregory  - London
Scott Becker � WI
Larry Naylor � CO
Ed Pillinger � England?
Will Grissel -
Gunnar Mossblad -
Jim Geblar � CT
John Yocum � West Coast
David Jary  - Queensbury, New York
Lamberson, Ron Coelho, Ponzol?

__________________________________________________
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Keith:

Just a little more information on some of the names on your list:

Will GriZZle (correct spelling) has moved to Atlanta
Jey Clark has moved to New York
Peter Ponzol is in Florida
Ron Cohelo has left the Seattle area, I'm not sure where he ended up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@...>
To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 9:10 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Mentors


> Jim says he lives fairly close to Ralph Morgan.
>
> I would highly recommend that anyone who lives close to a mouthpiece maker
> or refacer try to contact them for a visit.  I visited Bob Ackerman years
> ago and he did some work for me which got me interested in the craft.  I
> have tried to get with Theo but he has been too busy.
>
> There is an awful lot that can be gleaned from watching someone actually
do
> the work.  Plus, you could set up a relationship for follow up questions.
> We could all benefit from what you learn.  Not all will be willing to do
> this, but we've all been rejected before havn't we?.
>
> Here is a list of names I have found of people who do refacing work.
Maybe
> someone is near you.
>
> John Reilly - LA CA
> Jon Van Wie - NY state
> Theo Wanne - Philly
> Bob Ackerman - NJ
> Doc Tenney -
> Bob Carpenter - WA
> Ralph Morgan (works on others?)
> Phil Barone (works on others?)
> Jey Clark - CA
> Glen Johnston  - LA CA (deceased?)
> Paul Coats - LA
> Emil Anello - WI
> David M. Cox - Detroit?
> Larry Wyman - NY
> Norbert Satchel - SF CA
> John Yokum - LA CA?
> Freddie Gregory  - London
> Scott Becker - WI
> Larry Naylor - CO
> Ed Pillinger - England?
> Will Grissel -
> Gunnar Mossblad -
> Jim Geblar - CT
> John Yocum - West Coast
> David Jary  - Queensbury, New York
> Lamberson, Ron Coelho, Ponzol?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
> http://autos.yahoo.com
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the
Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Doc Tenney lives in Iowa (Cedar Rapids?)
Jey Clark has recently moved to MA (see www.saxmouthpiece.com)
Glen Johnston is indeed deceased

And who is this Coats fellow?  Can he be trusted with sharp implements? ;)

>Doc Tenney -
>Jey Clark � CA
>Glen Johnston  - LA CA (deceased?)
>Paul Coats - LA


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Ralph Morgan is in Mich?

...add me too.

Keith Bradbury - southern NJ.

__________________________________________________
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http://autos.yahoo.com

Unless Mr. Morgan has moved recently, he is southwestern Ohio.

>
>Ralph Morgan is in Mich?
>


_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.hotmail.com

The supplied file is the one piece of this kit I do not like.  I use a
smaller file given to me by Lilly at Runyon, the kind they use at the
factory.  It is approximately �� wide, flat on one side, and slightly
rounded on the other.  There are similar files in the MicroMark catalog.

The Winslow kit (Madison Enterprises) file is just too large for my
needs.  I have also added a File Card from Ferree�s, which is used to
clean files.  It is a plastic piece with short metal bristles.

Paul



michealharrelson wrote:

>  Nice Comparison. A small point about the Winslow Kit. The listing for
>
> the kit in the WW&BW catalog does say "one half round file for the
> baffle" but one of the photos of the kit shows two files???
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "jimreed_45409" <jimreed_45409@y...>
> wrote:
> > Here's the best I can figure out, looking at the 1939 Brand/Selmer
> > manual and what info I have been able to come up with for the Morgan
>
> > and Winslow kits.
> >
> > E.A. Brand's 1939 Selmer Refacing Outfit - NO LONGER PRODUCED
> > 1 large special glass surface plate
> > 1 glass direct reading gauge
> > 1 special tip opening gauge (taper gauge)
> > 1 set of feeler gauges:  .0015, .010, .024, .034, .050
> > 3 files
> > 1 block white finish (to polish rubber)
> > 1 piece chamois (to polish lays)
> > 1 box to hold entire outfit
> > 1 complete instruction book
> > a generous quantity of abrasive paper
> >
> > The Winslow Mouthpiece & Reed Kit
> > 1 booklet of instructions
> > 1 thick glass surface plate:  9" x 6" x 3/8"
> > 1 precision dial indicator and holder to measure reed thickness and
> > mouthpiece tip opening
> > 1 glass gauge for measuring facing
> > 9 feeler
> > gauges:  .0015, .010, .014, .024, .031,. .048, .063, .077, .094
> > silicon carbide abrasive paper, 400 and 600 grit
> > 1 half round file for the baffle
> > 3 new mouthpieces:  clarinet, alto sax, tenor sax
> >
> > Morgan Mouthpiece Measuring Kit
> > 1 curved stainless steel tip opening gauge
> > 1 glass reading gauge
> > set of feeler gauges
> > velvet covered steel case
> > instruction booklet
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT

>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.

jimreed_45409 wrote:

>  Until I'm able to obtain a Winslow kit (currently back-ordered at
> WW&BW, as often happens with a lot of their merchandise) there's no
> way I can begin to guess at the discrepancy between the narrative
> description and the photo, regarding how many files are in the kit.
>
> Luckily enough, my local library has a copy of the 1939 Brand/Selmer
> book so I was able to find out what was in that early kit, to get an
> idea of whether or not there's been much change between then and now.
>
> Being somewhat concerned about how easy it may be for me to damage
> some feeler gauges, I've been looking at www.toolsource.com and
> www.snapon.com along with Yahoo! Shopping and have discovered there
> are more general feeler gauges available than I could begin to
> imagine.  It looks like all of the sizes mentioned here are
> relatively easy to obtain, for $3.95 and up, depending on whether or
> not a person wants to get fancy and use stainless steel.

YES, you want stainless steel.  Non-stainless feelers can easily get a
coating of rust, and that ruins them.

>
>
> The one critical and significant difference, from what I seem to be
> reading into looking at necessary MPC tools, is the innovation of
> Winslow's dial indicator gauge.  The bar holder is not something
> easily obtained and probably would have to be custom made, probably a
> costly consideration when this tool is already available in Winslow's
> kit.
>
> The other tool difference seems to be what is referred to in a
> variety of terms in other kits and discussions:  special tip opening
> gauge, wand gauge, taper gauge, or curved tip gauge.  These gauges
> are difficult to obtain, reference some of Paul Coats' discussions.
> The only commercial source for these gauges, I have been able to
> discover so far, appears to be Babbitt and, although I've yet to call
> them, there are supposedly a couple of significant differences
> available in these tools; one being a 260 vs. 280 (length or size, I
> assume) and the other being inexpensive models for folks who don't
> feel the need for the precision of good professional gauges.
>
> The glass guages used in MPC kits and refacing have been discussed
> previously by Keith, as coming in a variety of options:  narrow vs.
> wide, setback zero or flush, metric or inch units of measurement.
> For those with preferences for a glass gauge different than what's in
> the kits, it seems reasonable enough to obtain them for around $15
> each, directly from Babbitt.
>
> Considering Brand's detailed description of mouthpiece work is still
> available in the 8th edition of his old manual, and can be purchased
> from Ferree's, it seems to me, given my tool preferences and the
> reinforcement of Paul Coats' discussions of his and Santy Runyon's
> preferences among kits, the Winslow kit appears to be the best kit
> for my money, unless I want to buy all the components separately and
> have a base or holder made for a dial gauge - an undertaking that
> probably would be more hassle than it's worth, for me.
>
> At the extreme, I still may also consider the Morgan kit, as well,
> since I live only 15-20 miles from him and would like to spend some
> time with Mr. Morgan once I get a better idea of what's involved in
> working with MPCs, from my own hands-on experiences.  At the moment,
> this is just a passing fantasy and not anything I feel altogether
> certain about since I'm not one to like to intrude upon folks
> professional lives and activities unless we come to a reasonable
> agreement beforehand about what we're doing, such as exchanging
> information, data, experiences, and opinions as is so easily done
> online these days.
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT

>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.

I hear that�

Paul


Mike Ruhl wrote:

> Doc Tenney lives in Iowa (Cedar Rapids?)
> Jey Clark has recently moved to MA (see www.saxmouthpiece.com)
> Glen Johnston is indeed deceased
>
> And who is this Coats fellow?  Can he be trusted with sharp implements? ;)
>
> >Doc Tenney -
> >Jey Clark � CA
> >Glen Johnston  - LA CA (deceased?)
> >Paul Coats - LA
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.

--- In MouthpieceWork@y..., Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> Phil Barone (works on others?)

He has in the past. He refaced and rechambered an Otto Link tenor 
piece for me in April 2001. He did a great job.

Gregg

I'm not sure if this is the latest in the series, but it is the last
of the group htat I have read, so far.

Paul,

What part of LA, or is that LouisianA?  Does anyone know of anyone
that lives in Orange County, CA?

> > >Paul Coats - LA

Emil Anello – WI
Scott Becker – WI

Do we know where Emil & Scot are in WI?  I will be there in a few
weeks and would love to stop in, if I'm able.

Thank you,

David

Anello has a web site.  Google it or look in the Links section of the Yahoo
MPWork site.


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search 
that gives answers, not web links. 
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Lousiana.
   
  I'm not far from New Orleans.
   
  Paul

David Kulcinski <dkulcinski@...> wrote:
          I'm not sure if this is the latest in the series, but it is the last
of the group htat I have read, so far.

Paul,

What part of LA, or is that LouisianA? Does anyone know of anyone
that lives in Orange County, CA?

> > >Paul Coats - LA

Emil Anello � WI
Scott Becker � WI

Do we know where Emil & Scot are in WI? I will be there in a few
weeks and would love to stop in, if I'm able.

Thank you,

David



         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       
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