Mr. Forbes talks of being able to obtain a curved tip gauge 
(graduated in mm/100) from Babbitt.  This appears to be the same 
gauge which is included in the Morgan kit.  He also comments that all 
curved tip gauges measure a little bit different and should be 
checked with a very accurate caliper.  The use of a curved tip gauge 
is recommended to be as a reference point and not an exact 
measurement.

Somewhere else I remember reading there is more than one curved tip 
gauge available from Babbitt (or tapered wand or whatever else these 
seem to be called) and a less expensive one might be very adequate 
for those of us just starting out and interested in working on MPCs 
only for ourselves, on somewhat of a casual basis, if we think this 
tool is necessary in the first place.  I also read a comment about 
the different sized taper or curved gauges have different feelings to 
them, which I have to assume are partially in response to the hands 
and fingers of the user or craftsman [craftsperson?].  Regardless, it 
does seem to mean there may be some variability to consider which 
might only be sorted out by touching, feeling, and using different 
taper gauges before actually selecting one.

Forbes goes on to indicate the standard selection of feelers gauges, 
in his opinion, for clarinet mouthpieces, are: .034, .024, .010, 
and .0015.  Then he states he uses 16 gauges to measure the curve, 
which he feels is overkill for anyone interested in basic MPC work.

My responses and discussions of any feedback raised over my postings 
may become a little erratic since, in addition to everything else I 
juggle daily, I've agreed to cover a friends teaching assignments for 
awhile, as she continues working towards another degree.

There are not a lot of tapered wand gauges on the market.  Not like you
can walk into the local hardware store and get one.  The ones the people
at Runyon use are made for them by a tool and die company on special
order.

Winslow supplies .0015�, .010�, .014�, .024�, .031�, .048�, .064�,
.077�, .094�.  The old Eric Brand kit stopped at .050�, but this is not
big enough to work on modern alto, tenor, and bari sax mouthpieces.

Also, in a conversation with John Winslow, he feels that a .0020� gauge
gives very nearly the same reading as a .0015�, but the thicker .0020�
does not get wrinkled as easily as the .0015�.

Mr. Winslow also feels that adding the .014� gauge give a little better
measuring in that region between the .0015� and .024�.

Paul


jimreed_45409 wrote:

>  Mr. Forbes talks of being able to obtain a curved tip gauge
> (graduated in mm/100) from Babbitt.  This appears to be the same
> gauge which is included in the Morgan kit.  He also comments that all
> curved tip gauges measure a little bit different and should be
> checked with a very accurate caliper.  The use of a curved tip gauge
> is recommended to be as a reference point and not an exact
> measurement.
>
> Somewhere else I remember reading there is more than one curved tip
> gauge available from Babbitt (or tapered wand or whatever else these
> seem to be called) and a less expensive one might be very adequate
> for those of us just starting out and interested in working on MPCs
> only for ourselves, on somewhat of a casual basis, if we think this
> tool is necessary in the first place.  I also read a comment about
> the different sized taper or curved gauges have different feelings to
> them, which I have to assume are partially in response to the hands
> and fingers of the user or craftsman [craftsperson?].  Regardless, it
> does seem to mean there may be some variability to consider which
> might only be sorted out by touching, feeling, and using different
> taper gauges before actually selecting one.
>
> Forbes goes on to indicate the standard selection of feelers gauges,
> in his opinion, for clarinet mouthpieces, are: .034, .024, .010,
> and .0015.  Then he states he uses 16 gauges to measure the curve,
> which he feels is overkill for anyone interested in basic MPC work.
>
> My responses and discussions of any feedback raised over my postings
> may become a little erratic since, in addition to everything else I
> juggle daily, I've agreed to cover a friends teaching assignments for
> awhile, as she continues working towards another degree.
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT

>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.

I'm new to this list.  There is a lot to learn about WW mouthpieces.  What I don't like is advertising tagging along on the heels of the posts as an attachment.  There are limits.  Yahoo has settings that can be activated that will stop attachments and therefore virus movement.  Some of the ads we get via Yahoo are as bad as any virus.  Could it be time for the moderator and/or owners of this list to take some responsibility  for the actual administration of the list?

==========
*Al*
allanmoon@...
==========

I have no control over Yahoo advertising.  We get to use their 
services for free, they get to tag on advertising.  I think it is a 
great deal.

I can turn off the setting that allows our attachments to our posts.  
I have left it on so that we can attach pictures, etc of interest, 
and some personal advertising.  I do not find the current level to be 
offensive, but I could be persuaded by the masses to reconsider.

As for viruses, I would suggest you protect yourself with an anti-
virus program.  If you are worried about attachments from this group, 
you could configure your settings not to recieve any Emails from this 
group and simply visit the MouthpieceWorks site to read the 
messages.  Good luck with all the other people who want to send you 
attachments.

One of my pet peeves would be Subject lines that do not pertain to 
the subject.  Many participants just hit Reply without editting the 
Subject line.  We have a lot of posts that are titled "Digest #", or 
simply the wrong topic, that do not help us when searching for 
information.  I can not edit these after they are posted.  I could 
delete and re-post them, but that is too much of a bother.

My other peeve is participation, but I'm learning to accept the level 
we have.  It is a fairly small group on a specialty topic and we all 
have other interests too.  So there will be dry spells.  I'm in other 
groups that have less activity.

Keith,

Regarding your peeves:

I am one of those who has joined in the last month or two, but has rarely posted.
My apologies - I'm new to Mthpc refacing (though I've been interested in the topic
since talking to - and buying a mthpc from - Ron Coelho a few years ago).

I'm still gathering information - and starting to collect tools. With "Zero" refacing experience (other than measuring tip openings on the mouthpieces I already own), I don't feel I have much to offer to this group.

However, notice that I *DID* change the subject line before hitting "Send"!! :-)

Please know that I very much appreciate the existence of this group - and the invaluable information that has been made available here. 

Like all of us, my life has been pretty busy lately - and will be more so in the near future (we're moving - AGAIN - in 5 weeks!!! Yikes!)

Hopefully, things will settle down some in September, and - after unpacking and finding my tools! - I can embark on the happy road of Mthpc Refacing in ernest
(Or is that "earnest"??).


Any way, thanks to you and all the others who have taken the time to post your findings on this news group!!

Thanks,
Peter Rawlings

-----Original Message-----
From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:32 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Digest Number 62



Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 6 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. MPC kits
           From: "jimreed_45409" <jimreed_45409@...>
      2. Re: Winslow gauge
           From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
      3. Re: Mouthpieces per Clark W. Forbes
           From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
      4. Re: MPC kits
           From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
      5. Re: Mouthpieces per Clark W. Forbes
           From: "allan moon" <allanmoon@...>
      6. List Administration/Settings
           From: "kwbradbury" <kwbradbury@...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:52:00 -0000
   From: "jimreed_45409" <jimreed_45409@...>
Subject: MPC kits

This morning, I received the following information from the Woodwind 
and Brasswind:  "Winslow Mpc/Reed Kit $195.00, these are on back 
order from Winslow and due here at anytime."

International Musical Suppliers carries the Morgan Mouthpiece 
Measuring Kit for $165.99.  The Woodwind and Brasswind is asking 
$148.00 for the same Morgan Kit and lists it as also being on 
backorder.

All things considered, I'm going to opt out and start collecting the 
pieces and parts on my own, now that the information is much more 
clear, thanks to everyone participating here.

FYI:  my copy of Ronald Saska's Guide to Repairing Woodwinds arrived 
this afternoon and I'll browse it over the next few days to see if it 
has anything else I can contribute from it's appendices of suppliers, 
etc.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:44:18 -0500
   From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
Subject: Re: Winslow gauge

The Winslow gauge is a dial indicator mounted on a fixture, made of bar
stock aluminum.  The Babbit kit, I think, has a glass gauge and a
"tapered wand" type gauge to measure tip, not calipers.

Paul


jimreed_45409 wrote:

>  Is the Winslow gauge simply an indicator dial on a half bar or base I
>
> think I remember mentioned in an earlier post?
>
> Also, am I correct in understanding calipers and a glass gauge from
> Babbitt can be used to make the same tip measurement as the Winslow
> gauge?
>
> BTW, thanks Keith, for the feedback on the SaxJ articles.
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT

>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.



[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:45:07 -0500
   From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
Subject: Re: Mouthpieces per Clark W. Forbes

There are not a lot of tapered wand gauges on the market.  Not like you
can walk into the local hardware store and get one.  The ones the people
at Runyon use are made for them by a tool and die company on special
order.

Winslow supplies .0015", .010", .014", .024", .031", .048", .064",
.077", .094".  The old Eric Brand kit stopped at .050", but this is not
big enough to work on modern alto, tenor, and bari sax mouthpieces.

Also, in a conversation with John Winslow, he feels that a .0020" gauge
gives very nearly the same reading as a .0015", but the thicker .0020"
does not get wrinkled as easily as the .0015".

Mr. Winslow also feels that adding the .014" gauge give a little better
measuring in that region between the .0015" and .024".

Paul


jimreed_45409 wrote:

>  Mr. Forbes talks of being able to obtain a curved tip gauge
> (graduated in mm/100) from Babbitt.  This appears to be the same
> gauge which is included in the Morgan kit.  He also comments that all
> curved tip gauges measure a little bit different and should be
> checked with a very accurate caliper.  The use of a curved tip gauge
> is recommended to be as a reference point and not an exact
> measurement.
>
> Somewhere else I remember reading there is more than one curved tip
> gauge available from Babbitt (or tapered wand or whatever else these
> seem to be called) and a less expensive one might be very adequate
> for those of us just starting out and interested in working on MPCs
> only for ourselves, on somewhat of a casual basis, if we think this
> tool is necessary in the first place.  I also read a comment about
> the different sized taper or curved gauges have different feelings to
> them, which I have to assume are partially in response to the hands
> and fingers of the user or craftsman [craftsperson?].  Regardless, it
> does seem to mean there may be some variability to consider which
> might only be sorted out by touching, feeling, and using different
> taper gauges before actually selecting one.
>
> Forbes goes on to indicate the standard selection of feelers gauges,
> in his opinion, for clarinet mouthpieces, are: .034, .024, .010,
> and .0015.  Then he states he uses 16 gauges to measure the curve,
> which he feels is overkill for anyone interested in basic MPC work.
>
> My responses and discussions of any feedback raised over my postings
> may become a little erratic since, in addition to everything else I
> juggle daily, I've agreed to cover a friends teaching assignments for
> awhile, as she continues working towards another degree.
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT

>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.



[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:01:13 -0500
   From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
Subject: Re: MPC kits

There is no substitute for some of the tools in the Winslow kit...
specifically the glass gauge and the dial indicator tip opening gauge.
I encourage you to wait and get that.

Yes, start collecting mouthpieces now.

Paul


jimreed_45409 wrote:

>  This morning, I received the following information from the Woodwind
> and Brasswind:  "Winslow Mpc/Reed Kit $195.00, these are on back
> order from Winslow and due here at anytime."
>
> International Musical Suppliers carries the Morgan Mouthpiece
> Measuring Kit for $165.99.  The Woodwind and Brasswind is asking
> $148.00 for the same Morgan Kit and lists it as also being on
> backorder.
>
> All things considered, I'm going to opt out and start collecting the
> pieces and parts on my own, now that the information is much more
> clear, thanks to everyone participating here.
>
> FYI:  my copy of Ronald Saska's Guide to Repairing Woodwinds arrived
> this afternoon and I'll browse it over the next few days to see if it
> has anything else I can contribute from it's appendices of suppliers,
> etc.
>
>
>
>                               Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
  [Click here to visit our exclusive feature of ACUVUE2 Colours at LensExpress.com!]
                       Click here to find your contact lenses!
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and view photos.



[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:11:59 -0400
   From: "allan moon" <allanmoon@...>
Subject: Re: Mouthpieces per Clark W. Forbes

I'm new to this list.  There is a lot to learn about WW mouthpieces.  What I don't like is advertising tagging along on the heels of the posts as an attachment.  There are limits.  Yahoo has settings that can be activated that will stop attachments and therefore virus movement.  Some of the ads we get via Yahoo are as bad as any virus.  Could it be time for the moderator and/or owners of this list to take some responsibility  for the actual administration of the list?

==========
*Al*
allanmoon@...
==========


[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
   Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:39:44 -0000
   From: "kwbradbury" <kwbradbury@...>
Subject: List Administration/Settings

I have no control over Yahoo advertising.  We get to use their 
services for free, they get to tag on advertising.  I think it is a 
great deal.

I can turn off the setting that allows our attachments to our posts.  
I have left it on so that we can attach pictures, etc of interest, 
and some personal advertising.  I do not find the current level to be 
offensive, but I could be persuaded by the masses to reconsider.

As for viruses, I would suggest you protect yourself with an anti-
virus program.  If you are worried about attachments from this group, 
you could configure your settings not to recieve any Emails from this 
group and simply visit the MouthpieceWorks site to read the 
messages.  Good luck with all the other people who want to send you 
attachments.

One of my pet peeves would be Subject lines that do not pertain to 
the subject.  Many participants just hit Reply without editting the 
Subject line.  We have a lot of posts that are titled "Digest #", or 
simply the wrong topic, that do not help us when searching for 
information.  I can not edit these after they are posted.  I could 
delete and re-post them, but that is too much of a bother.

My other peeve is participation, but I'm learning to accept the level 
we have.  It is a fairly small group on a specialty topic and we all 
have other interests too.  So there will be dry spells.  I'm in other 
groups that have less activity.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Good to hear from you Peter.

I fogot to elaborate on replying to this group after reading a digest.  It
is nice to edit the Subject line AND not include the entire Digest again in
your message.  Maybe quote a line or two if it helps continuity, but in
general there is no need to reiterate the entire previous message or
Digest.

I think I'm done.

...and I do appreciate that many of you appreciate this group.  

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com

With a variety of online discussion group experiences going back to 
old bulleting board systems, etc., and including distance education 
graduate programs, along with a fair amount of classroom teaching 
experiences, yada yada yada, my own assessment of participation is 
that, even with graduate and professional school grades at stake, 
unfortunately some folks just don't quite participate or contribute 
much to the groups they belong to.

With groups like this one, a high percentage of us are bound to be 
people interested in learning about mouthpiece work while we're not 
yet at a very advanced level.  I suspect most of us are aware of 
that.  What I'm wondering is if those of us involved with other 
groups, such as some of the alt and rec groups, sneezy, etc., might 
be able to pass on a comment, once in awhile, about MouthpieceWork 
being a good place for specific discussions and information about MPC 
work.

Meanwhile, as a rank amateur, not far enough along to even want to 
call myself a novice, at least not until I gather up some more tools 
and start collecting measurements of my MPCs, I am very appreciative 
of the existence of this particular group as well as the advice and 
feedback I get here.  Otherwise, I'm somebody who would get easily 
frustrated and feel even more clueless about how to start working 
with MPCs.  Regardless of my own training and experiences, I don't 
easily assimilate theories unless I've got a fair amount of hands-on 
and visual experience to place theories in the context of.

So, thanks a bunch for being here, even if I'm not able to post 
anything other than sharing seemingly esoteric details from a 
somewhat academic perspective.

Jim, your participation has been great.  I think most of the group members
(and future members) are just starting out and they can really use your
summaries of where to find stuff.

One of the reasons I picked Yahoo for this group is so that good posts,
files, links, and photos could be archived and found later.

Most of us have taken of the info on the web.  It is good to take the time
to give back some.  It helps "the collective".

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com

Thank you Ken, and others, for your acceptance of us "neophytes" into a 
highly technically-demanding field of endeavor.  I do echo Jim Reed's 
comments as applying to my trials to improve poorly-made/damaged mouthpieces 
for student horns [mainly cls] and for my own use, using fine emery cloth and 
newsprint for polishing, on flat surface.  So, I also am a reader-learner 
rather than a contributor, at this time. Via Sneezy/Woodwind, I have talked 
about refacing, and have had some done both in VA and Italy, quite 
satisfactorily. Again, TKS for education,  Don