I recently got six identical soprano mouthpieces (for free!)I could 
do some experimenting with. They are Rico graftonite-type mpcs that 
have no name on them. Anybody got any idea what would be some good 
experiments? As I have 6 identical ones I could compare results. I 
think trying different kinds of facing curves might be interesting, 
but I am open to suggestions. We could even set up a real experiment, 
as I could send an experimental sample out to someone willing to pay 
shipping costs (from europe), who in turn could send them to the next 
a.s.o. 

On a side note, I think on (straight) soprano short facings, 
relatively large tip opening and soft reeds are a good combination. 
On soprano low notes are relatively easy to get, compared to alto or 
tenor, which defeats one objection to short facings. High notes are 
often harder to get, and a short facing helps in this department. A 
larger tip opening helps to get a bigger (not necessarily louder) 
sound. Air is not so much of a problem on soprano (it is on bass 
sax!). Soft reeds are easier to play in tune in my experience, as 
they force you to use proper breath support rather than lip tension - 
they close off when you use too much tension. I currently play on a 
metal selmer that I opened to .90, with a facing length of 16mm (32 
on the eric brand system), and to which I added some rollover baffle.

Henk

I'm a Fibracell fan.  I just do not like messing with cane.

I think the long cut on the soprano Fibracell reeds work really well with
longer facings to get a big sound on soprano.  I'm using 2.5s and 3s.

My favorite facing length so far is 22 mm long (44 on the E.Brand scale)
with the .0015" feeler.  I mostly use tips from .060"-.070".  High notes
still come out, but I have to raise my tongue.  I have not tried larger but
I eventually will.  I dont play enough soprano to really get the intonation
down.  I get the best intonation on a Selmer S80 C* that measures more like
a D (.047", 20 mm Long).  But is sounds so plain.  I'll use it if I play in
church.

I've been digging a Metalite M7 with a Winslow ligature lately!  The lig
costs way more than the mouthpiece!  But the baffle is nice.  High and
long, but it does not crowd the tip rail.  I have not tried the Graftonite
yet, but I have one on order.

I also have a couple of HR Ponzols, a Barone, a Bari (they are all similar
inside) a Runyon Custom Spoiler and a Vandoren S25 with a hogged out
chamber for my C soprano.  I've at least tweek most of them.

So I do not have any specific experiments for you yet.  I just wanted to
offer you my baseline.  I have a straight vintage Conn and I recently added
a new curved Musica (German or China?) that plays well.  Brighter than my Conn.

==Hear me at http://www.geocities.com/kwbradbury/MojoCD.html
We are popular across the nation at Swingtop40.com!

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

Keith, I think you already gave me an idea for an experiment. I have 
been wondering what to do with my Fibracells for some time. The soft 
works pretty well, but not great, on my refaced metal Selmer. Part of 
the reason these synthetic reeds don't work as well as (good) cane 
reeds may be that they require a different facing curve. I'll try 
some different facing lenghts, and either use a harder reed on the 
longer one, or use the same reed and open it up a bit more, in order 
to be able to make a fair comparison. After that I may also try 
some 'deviations' from the 'arc curve'. These graftonite mpcs play 
pretty good (but not great) actually.

22mm is pretty long for a soprano facing, and hard to control pitch-
wise, I would guess. I played a 19 mm facing for some years, but 
prefer a shorter facing now. I think the long facing helps to get a 
somewhat darker sound from the Fibracells (that I find too buzzy). An 
alternative would be a shorter facing with a lower baffle - another 
way to get a darker sound. I made my tenor back up mouthpiece along 
these lines - it's too dark with cane reeds, but sounds pretty good 
with Fibracells. I may try both alternatives, and see what works 
better, at least for me.
I play a Selmer super action (first series) soprano, and also have a 
Buescher late true tone; a SML tenor, and a Pan American bass sax. 

Thanks for the explanation of the math of the facing curves, by the 
way. It looks the same as what I have used to make some tables. But I 
understand your explanation better than my own notes. I had also been 
thinking about trying a 'curve fit' program to find a mathematical 
description of some favorite facing curves.

In case anyone is interested in trying really open soprano 
mouthpieces, different facing lengths, and tips between .85 and .90, 
I have lots of them I am willing to sell. These include several Bari, 
HR Link, Vandoren, Selmer S80 and SML (smooth bore concept) blanks.

Henk


--- In MouthpieceWork@y..., Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> I'm a Fibracell fan.  I just do not like messing with cane.
> 
> I think the long cut on the soprano Fibracell reeds work really 
well with
> longer facings to get a big sound on soprano.  I'm using 2.5s and 
3s.
> 
> My favorite facing length so far is 22 mm long (44 on the E.Brand 
scale)
> with the .0015" feeler.  I mostly use tips from .060"-.070".  High 
notes
> still come out, but I have to raise my tongue.  I have not tried 
larger but
> I eventually will.  I dont play enough soprano to really get the 
intonation
> down.  I get the best intonation on a Selmer S80 C* that measures 
more like
> a D (.047", 20 mm Long).  But is sounds so plain.  I'll use it if I 
play in
> church.
> 
> I've been digging a Metalite M7 with a Winslow ligature lately!  
The lig
> costs way more than the mouthpiece!  But the baffle is nice.  High 
and
> long, but it does not crowd the tip rail.  I have not tried the 
Graftonite
> yet, but I have one on order.
> 
> I also have a couple of HR Ponzols, a Barone, a Bari (they are all 
similar
> inside) a Runyon Custom Spoiler and a Vandoren S25 with a hogged out
> chamber for my C soprano.  I've at least tweek most of them.
> 
> So I do not have any specific experiments for you yet.  I just 
wanted to
> offer you my baseline.  I have a straight vintage Conn and I 
recently added
> a new curved Musica (German or China?) that plays well.  Brighter 
than my Conn.
> 
> ==> Hear me at http://www.geocities.com/kwbradbury/MojoCD.html
> We are popular across the nation at Swingtop40.com!
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
> http://health.yahoo.com

These mouthpieces are Ricos, just not stamped.  They come from the US to
Asia, are included in the case in many of the Asian saxes.

As they come in stock condition, for most sopranos, they have poor
intonation.  The chamber is much, much too large.  The mouthpiece must
be pushed onto the cork, usually past the cork, in an effort to tune the
middle C to concert Bb.  With some sopranos, the shank of the mouthpiece
touches the neck octave vent, and it is still not on far enough to tune.

If it can be gotten on far enough to tune the middle C (C2), then C3 is
approximately � step sharp, and the palm key notes go progressively
sharper from there.

I would suggest you experiment with these mouthpieces by partly filling
in the chamber, making various chamber shapes, chamber volumes.  Still,
it may not be possible to make this mouthpiece play with good
intonation.

Paul Coats


henk_bass wrote:

>  I recently got six identical soprano mouthpieces (for free!)I could
> do some experimenting with. They are Rico graftonite-type mpcs that
> have no name on them. Anybody got any idea what would be some good
> experiments? As I have 6 identical ones I could compare results. I
> think trying different kinds of facing curves might be interesting,
> but I am open to suggestions. We could even set up a real experiment,
> as I could send an experimental sample out to someone willing to pay
> shipping costs (from europe), who in turn could send them to the next
> a.s.o.
>
> On a side note, I think on (straight) soprano short facings,
> relatively large tip opening and soft reeds are a good combination.
> On soprano low notes are relatively easy to get, compared to alto or
> tenor, which defeats one objection to short facings. High notes are
> often harder to get, and a short facing helps in this department. A
> larger tip opening helps to get a bigger (not necessarily louder)
> sound. Air is not so much of a problem on soprano (it is on bass
> sax!). Soft reeds are easier to play in tune in my experience, as
> they force you to use proper breath support rather than lip tension -
> they close off when you use too much tension. I currently play on a
> metal selmer that I opened to .90, with a facing length of 16mm (32
> on the eric brand system), and to which I added some rollover baffle.
>
> Henk
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3 samples at:

  http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and click Paul's MP3's.

Henk wrote:
>>>>
Thanks for the explanation of the math of the facing curves, by the 
way. It looks the same as what I have used to make some tables. But I 
understand your explanation better than my own notes. I had also been 
thinking about trying a 'curve fit' program to find a mathematical 
description of some favorite facing curves.
<<<<

I have another curve I have been fitting that is a 3 parameter fit. 
Asymptotic, I think.  But I have not found it more usefull than the radial
fit.  I sometimes fit a straight line near the tip and use a combination
radial-linear fit.  You can see where some pieces are faced straight near
the tip.

I'm now seeing a need for fitting a 2nd short radial curve near the tip. 
I've seen several good curves that flip up near the end to the tip opening.
 This adds resistance.  The 2nd curve would need 3 parameters: a X,Y origin
and a Radius.  The original radial curve I described only needed 2
parameters because the origin is restrained so that its X = R.

While this can all be done by feel/touch, the curves help me to visualize
what is going on.  A short radius has more resistance than a long one.  

==Hear me at http://www.geocities.com/kwbradbury/MojoCD.html
We are popular across the nation at Swingtop40.com!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com

Paul,

Are we talking about what would otherwise be called Rico Graftonite mpcs?  I 
have one for soprano (B7 facing, .065"), and have not noticed the intonation 
problems you mention.  I've used it in an ensemble setting on several 
occasions.  I do have to push it onto the cork about 3/16" farther than my 
#8 Runyon Custom, but it tunes fine for me.

Then again, I've never had problems with the intonation of my Super 20 
tenor, either.  Maybe I've just learned to compensate for the vagaries so 
well that I don't realize I'm doing it.  I'm certainly not going to start 
*thinking* about it now.

I actually like the sound of the Graftonite on soprano.  It's bright, but 
not as bright as my Custom, and I feel like I can shape the sound a little 
more, probably due to the larger chamber.

Mike R.

>From: tenorman@...
>Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] experiment, but what?
>Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:28:01 -0500
>
>These mouthpieces are Ricos, just not stamped.  They come from the US to
>Asia, are included in the case in many of the Asian saxes.
>
>As they come in stock condition, for most sopranos, they have poor
>intonation.  The chamber is much, much too large.  The mouthpiece must
>be pushed onto the cork, usually past the cork, in an effort to tune the
>middle C to concert Bb.  With some sopranos, the shank of the mouthpiece
>touches the neck octave vent, and it is still not on far enough to tune.
>
>If it can be gotten on far enough to tune the middle C (C2), then C3 is
>approximately � step sharp, and the palm key notes go progressively
>sharper from there.
>
>I would suggest you experiment with these mouthpieces by partly filling
>in the chamber, making various chamber shapes, chamber volumes.  Still,
>it may not be possible to make this mouthpiece play with good
>intonation.
>
>Paul Coats
>
>
>henk_bass wrote:
>
> >  I recently got six identical soprano mouthpieces (for free!)I could
> > do some experimenting with. They are Rico graftonite-type mpcs that
> > have no name on them. Anybody got any idea what would be some good
> > experiments? As I have 6 identical ones I could compare results. I
> > think trying different kinds of facing curves might be interesting,
> > but I am open to suggestions. We could even set up a real experiment,
> > as I could send an experimental sample out to someone willing to pay
> > shipping costs (from europe), who in turn could send them to the next
> > a.s.o.
> >
> > On a side note, I think on (straight) soprano short facings,
> > relatively large tip opening and soft reeds are a good combination.
> > On soprano low notes are relatively easy to get, compared to alto or
> > tenor, which defeats one objection to short facings. High notes are
> > often harder to get, and a short facing helps in this department. A
> > larger tip opening helps to get a bigger (not necessarily louder)
> > sound. Air is not so much of a problem on soprano (it is on bass
> > sax!). Soft reeds are easier to play in tune in my experience, as
> > they force you to use proper breath support rather than lip tension -
> > they close off when you use too much tension. I currently play on a
> > metal selmer that I opened to .90, with a facing length of 16mm (32
> > on the eric brand system), and to which I added some rollover baffle.
> >
> > Henk
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>--
>Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":
>
>   http://www.saxontheweb.net
>
>or directly to Paul's articles at:
>
>   http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/
>
>Listen to Paul's MP3 samples at:
>
>   http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
>
>and click Paul's MP3's.
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Henk,

I'd be willing to pay postage to try out several different facings in these 
mouthpieces.  I have a Rico Graftonite B7 (.065") that plays well for me, 
but I'm interested to see what a larger tip opening would do for me.

Perhaps you could reface three of these mouthpieces to .070", .080, and 
.090"?

Please let me know,
Mike Ruhl
Greenville, SC, USA


>I recently got six identical soprano mouthpieces (for free!)I could
>do some experimenting with. They are Rico graftonite-type mpcs that
>have no name on them. Anybody got any idea what would be some good
>experiments? As I have 6 identical ones I could compare results. I
>think trying different kinds of facing curves might be interesting,
>but I am open to suggestions. We could even set up a real experiment,
>as I could send an experimental sample out to someone willing to pay
>shipping costs (from europe), who in turn could send them to the next
>a.s.o.
>
>On a side note, I think on (straight) soprano short facings,
>relatively large tip opening and soft reeds are a good combination.
>On soprano low notes are relatively easy to get, compared to alto or
>tenor, which defeats one objection to short facings. High notes are
>often harder to get, and a short facing helps in this department. A
>larger tip opening helps to get a bigger (not necessarily louder)
>sound. Air is not so much of a problem on soprano (it is on bass
>sax!). Soft reeds are easier to play in tune in my experience, as
>they force you to use proper breath support rather than lip tension -
>they close off when you use too much tension. I currently play on a
>metal selmer that I opened to .90, with a facing length of 16mm (32
>on the eric brand system), and to which I added some rollover baffle.
>
>Henk
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Funny, I was also going to mention the good intonation on these mpcs. 
With a 2,5 blue box Vandoren I have lying around they play in tune 
very well on my Selmer, high into the altissimo. On my Buescher they 
are less stable, pith-wise, and have the tendency Paul describes. 
With proper air support they play in tune, but they do not seem to be 
a very good fit.
I tune by playing low B, and pushing the mpc in untill the first 
harmonic is in tune with middle B fingering. And a tuner of course. 
But as everything else, tuning of these pieces may depend on the 
player and the horn.

Mike, I am not sure yet whether opening these mpcs to large tip 
openings will work. As the baffle starts a few millimeters after the 
tip rail, opening the piece up will change the design more than on 
other mpcs, as the baffle will get progressively closer to the tip. 
I'll go ahead with one and see what happens. If I think the result 
plays, I'll gladly send it (or even a few) to you so you can try 
them. I will need a little time.

Henk

--- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "Mike Ruhl" <mikeruhl@h...> wrote:
> Henk,
> 
> I'd be willing to pay postage to try out several different facings 
in these 
> mouthpieces.  I have a Rico Graftonite B7 (.065") that plays well 
for me, 
> but I'm interested to see what a larger tip opening would do for me.
> 
> Perhaps you could reface three of these mouthpieces to .070", .080, 
and 
> .090"?
> 
> Please let me know,
> Mike Ruhl
> Greenville, SC, USA
> 
> 
> >I recently got six identical soprano mouthpieces (for free!)I could
> >do some experimenting with. They are Rico graftonite-type mpcs that
> >have no name on them. Anybody got any idea what would be some good
> >experiments? As I have 6 identical ones I could compare results. I
> >think trying different kinds of facing curves might be interesting,
> >but I am open to suggestions. We could even set up a real 
experiment,
> >as I could send an experimental sample out to someone willing to 
pay
> >shipping costs (from europe), who in turn could send them to the 
next
> >a.s.o.
> >
> >On a side note, I think on (straight) soprano short facings,
> >relatively large tip opening and soft reeds are a good combination.
> >On soprano low notes are relatively easy to get, compared to alto 
or
> >tenor, which defeats one objection to short facings. High notes are
> >often harder to get, and a short facing helps in this department. A
> >larger tip opening helps to get a bigger (not necessarily louder)
> >sound. Air is not so much of a problem on soprano (it is on bass
> >sax!). Soft reeds are easier to play in tune in my experience, as
> >they force you to use proper breath support rather than lip 
tension -
> >they close off when you use too much tension. I currently play on a
> >metal selmer that I opened to .90, with a facing length of 16mm (32
> >on the eric brand system), and to which I added some rollover 
baffle.
> >
> >Henk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Henk,

If you think these mouthpieces have a limit to how much they can be opened, 
then perhaps testing different facing curve lengths would be better.  
Whatever you decide is fine with me.  I just wanted to volunteer to help out 
with the play-testing, since I'm familiar with the Rico mouthpieces.

Whenever you get ready, just let me know.

Mike


>From: "henk_bass" <henk.spies@...>
>Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: experiment, but what?
>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:52:45 -0000
>
>Funny, I was also going to mention the good intonation on these mpcs.
>With a 2,5 blue box Vandoren I have lying around they play in tune
>very well on my Selmer, high into the altissimo. On my Buescher they
>are less stable, pith-wise, and have the tendency Paul describes.
>With proper air support they play in tune, but they do not seem to be
>a very good fit.
>I tune by playing low B, and pushing the mpc in untill the first
>harmonic is in tune with middle B fingering. And a tuner of course.
>But as everything else, tuning of these pieces may depend on the
>player and the horn.
>
>Mike, I am not sure yet whether opening these mpcs to large tip
>openings will work. As the baffle starts a few millimeters after the
>tip rail, opening the piece up will change the design more than on
>other mpcs, as the baffle will get progressively closer to the tip.
>I'll go ahead with one and see what happens. If I think the result
>plays, I'll gladly send it (or even a few) to you so you can try
>them. I will need a little time.
>
>Henk
>
>--- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "Mike Ruhl" <mikeruhl@h...> wrote:
> > Henk,
> >
> > I'd be willing to pay postage to try out several different facings
>in these
> > mouthpieces.  I have a Rico Graftonite B7 (.065") that plays well
>for me,
> > but I'm interested to see what a larger tip opening would do for me.
> >
> > Perhaps you could reface three of these mouthpieces to .070", .080,
>and
> > .090"?
> >
> > Please let me know,
> > Mike Ruhl
> > Greenville, SC, USA
> >
> >
> > >I recently got six identical soprano mouthpieces (for free!)I could
> > >do some experimenting with. They are Rico graftonite-type mpcs that
> > >have no name on them. Anybody got any idea what would be some good
> > >experiments? As I have 6 identical ones I could compare results. I
> > >think trying different kinds of facing curves might be interesting,
> > >but I am open to suggestions. We could even set up a real
>experiment,
> > >as I could send an experimental sample out to someone willing to
>pay
> > >shipping costs (from europe), who in turn could send them to the
>next
> > >a.s.o.
> > >
> > >On a side note, I think on (straight) soprano short facings,
> > >relatively large tip opening and soft reeds are a good combination.
> > >On soprano low notes are relatively easy to get, compared to alto
>or
> > >tenor, which defeats one objection to short facings. High notes are
> > >often harder to get, and a short facing helps in this department. A
> > >larger tip opening helps to get a bigger (not necessarily louder)
> > >sound. Air is not so much of a problem on soprano (it is on bass
> > >sax!). Soft reeds are easier to play in tune in my experience, as
> > >they force you to use proper breath support rather than lip
>tension -
> > >they close off when you use too much tension. I currently play on a
> > >metal selmer that I opened to .90, with a facing length of 16mm (32
> > >on the eric brand system), and to which I added some rollover
>baffle.
> > >
> > >Henk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Flattening the curve near the tip can make the mouthpiece darker, richer
sounding, and to me, a better playing, quicker responding piece.

Paul


Keith Bradbury wrote:

>  Henk wrote:
> >>>>
> Thanks for the explanation of the math of the facing curves, by the
> way. It looks the same as what I have used to make some tables. But I
> understand your explanation better than my own notes. I had also been
> thinking about trying a 'curve fit' program to find a mathematical
> description of some favorite facing curves.
> <<<<
>
> I have another curve I have been fitting that is a 3 parameter fit.
> Asymptotic, I think.  But I have not found it more usefull than the
> radial
> fit.  I sometimes fit a straight line near the tip and use a
> combination
> radial-linear fit.  You can see where some pieces are faced straight
> near
> the tip.
>
> I'm now seeing a need for fitting a 2nd short radial curve near the
> tip.
> I've seen several good curves that flip up near the end to the tip
> opening.
> This adds resistance.  The 2nd curve would need 3 parameters: a X,Y
> origin
> and a Radius.  The original radial curve I described only needed 2
> parameters because the origin is restrained so that its X = R.
>
> While this can all be done by feel/touch, the curves help me to
> visualize
> what is going on.  A short radius has more resistance than a long one.
>
> ==> Hear me at http://www.geocities.com/kwbradbury/MojoCD.html
> We are popular across the nation at Swingtop40.com!
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
> http://health.yahoo.com
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT
                         [Click Here!]

>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3 samples at:

  http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and click Paul's MP3's.

Mike Ruhl wrote:

> Paul,
>
> Are we talking about what would otherwise be called Rico Graftonite mpcs?  I
> have one for soprano (B7 facing, .065"), and have not noticed the intonation
> problems you mention.

Yes, that is the one.  On many saxes I have used it with, there have been some
intonation issues, however, on my old Mk VI soprano, the Graftonite seemed to
play OK.

> I've used it in an ensemble setting on several
> occasions.  I do have to push it onto the cork about 3/16" farther than my
> #8 Runyon Custom, but it tunes fine for me.
>
> Then again, I've never had problems with the intonation of my Super 20
> tenor, either.  Maybe I've just learned to compensate for the vagaries so
> well that I don't realize I'm doing it.  I'm certainly not going to start
> *thinking* about it now.
>
> I actually like the sound of the Graftonite on soprano.  It's bright, but
> not as bright as my Custom, and I feel like I can shape the sound a little
> more, probably due to the larger chamber.
>
> Mike R.

Mike, I like the general size of the Graftonite.  It seems to be comfortable to
play.  I just had intonation problems with some saxes.  At the price these can
be obtained, they make good experimental blanks.

On the other hand, I ran into a soprano a while back, that the ONLY way I could
make it play in tune was with a very large chamber piece, that then had to be
pushed on very far.  So far, the shank had to be shortened ��, as the diameter
of the neck was very fat, and you could sand the cork all the way to the metal,
and still not be able to push the mouthpiece on far enough.  Finally, I was able
to make a mouthpiece for that soprano that the customer was able to play his
instrument fairly well in tune.

As I said, the bore was very big on that particular soprano.  The sopranos I had
problems with the Rico Graftonite mouthpieces all had much smaller bores.  Going
to smaller chambered mouthpieces seemed to work well with those saxes.  The
Graftonite seems limited in which saxes it can be used with.

But, this is a common problem with soprano saxophone!  Chamber volume shows up
very wickedly.  Tenor and bari seem to allow wider latitude.

Paul

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

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and click Paul's MP3's.

That brings to mind another experiment with these mouthpieces.  The
design is such that the facing is molded on, not machined on.  Thus,
every different tip opening would require hand baffle work, if
machined.  But what they have done is design the mouthpiece with the cut
away baffle area, and simply plug in the part of the mold for the
facing.  So, they worked around the smooth baffle to tip rail by simply
eliminating the baffle!

I would suggest that you could also fill in that area, the first 5 or 6
mm behind the tip rail, and experiment with different baffle contours,
and how they compare to the design of the Graftonite as produced.

Paul



henk_bass wrote:

>  Funny, I was also going to mention the good intonation on these mpcs.
>
> With a 2,5 blue box Vandoren I have lying around they play in tune
> very well on my Selmer, high into the altissimo. On my Buescher they
> are less stable, pith-wise, and have the tendency Paul describes.
> With proper air support they play in tune, but they do not seem to be
> a very good fit.
> I tune by playing low B, and pushing the mpc in untill the first
> harmonic is in tune with middle B fingering. And a tuner of course.
> But as everything else, tuning of these pieces may depend on the
> player and the horn.
>
> Mike, I am not sure yet whether opening these mpcs to large tip
> openings will work. As the baffle starts a few millimeters after the
> tip rail, opening the piece up will change the design more than on
> other mpcs, as the baffle will get progressively closer to the tip.
> I'll go ahead with one and see what happens. If I think the result
> plays, I'll gladly send it (or even a few) to you so you can try
> them. I will need a little time.
>
> Henk
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "Mike Ruhl" <mikeruhl@h...> wrote:
> > Henk,
> >
> > I'd be willing to pay postage to try out several different facings
> in these
> > mouthpieces.  I have a Rico Graftonite B7 (.065") that plays well
> for me,
> > but I'm interested to see what a larger tip opening would do for me.
>
> >
> > Perhaps you could reface three of these mouthpieces to .070", .080,
> and
> > .090"?
> >
> > Please let me know,
> > Mike Ruhl
> > Greenville, SC, USA
> >
> >
> > >I recently got six identical soprano mouthpieces (for free!)I could
>
> > >do some experimenting with. They are Rico graftonite-type mpcs that
>
> > >have no name on them. Anybody got any idea what would be some good
> > >experiments? As I have 6 identical ones I could compare results. I
> > >think trying different kinds of facing curves might be interesting,
>
> > >but I am open to suggestions. We could even set up a real
> experiment,
> > >as I could send an experimental sample out to someone willing to
> pay
> > >shipping costs (from europe), who in turn could send them to the
> next
> > >a.s.o.
> > >
> > >On a side note, I think on (straight) soprano short facings,
> > >relatively large tip opening and soft reeds are a good combination.
>
> > >On soprano low notes are relatively easy to get, compared to alto
> or
> > >tenor, which defeats one objection to short facings. High notes are
>
> > >often harder to get, and a short facing helps in this department. A
>
> > >larger tip opening helps to get a bigger (not necessarily louder)
> > >sound. Air is not so much of a problem on soprano (it is on bass
> > >sax!). Soft reeds are easier to play in tune in my experience, as
> > >they force you to use proper breath support rather than lip
> tension -
> > >they close off when you use too much tension. I currently play on a
>
> > >metal selmer that I opened to .90, with a facing length of 16mm (32
>
> > >on the eric brand system), and to which I added some rollover
> baffle.
> > >
> > >Henk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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>
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--
Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

  http://www.saxontheweb.net

or directly to Paul's articles at:

  http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

Listen to Paul's MP3 samples at:

  http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

and click Paul's MP3's.

--- In MouthpieceWork@y..., "Mike Ruhl" <mikeruhl@h...> wrote:
> Henk,
> 
> Whatever you decide is fine with me.  I just wanted to volunteer to 
help out 
> with the play-testing, since I'm familiar with the Rico mouthpieces.
> 

I'll pay some postage and play test them also for you.