FROM: tilemakerpro (tilemakerpro)
SUBJECT: SIZE
OK--In my last post I mentioned the pitch of the mouthpieces, off of 
the sax (as stated by Santy Runyon).  I thought every one understood 
this dOK-- inescription, as what determines the application of the 
piece.

We could make the piece; 2 3/8, 2 3/4, 3, 3 1/4, 3 /2, 3 3/4 , etc., 
long.
We could put different size bores; .500, .535, .625, .687 , etc.

With the above assortment of pieces, we could begin to match the 
pieces to various horns; sopranino, C sop, Bb sop, alto, melody, 
tenor, bari, etc.  The first determining feature would be whether the 
bore was right size for the neck cork.  Of course the neck cork could 
be made to fit the piece (I wrapped an alto sax neck to accept a 
soprano clarinet piece once).

We must establish a bore size that will be the continuation of the 
neck taper cone of that particular model!  Then we must compensate for 
the chamber size, with the length of shank vintage large chamber takes 
a short shank "stubby." A fusion small chamber takes a longing shank.

Now the important QUESTION when is the piece designed with "feature 
balance" for a particular model sax?  Remember that I placed a 
clarinet piece on an alto sax and the intonation was terrible.  The 
soprano clarinet piece is about the same size as an alto sax, but it 
does not play "A" pitch.

The ANSWER is when it freely blows the right pitch as stated by Santy 
Runyon, It is the right mouthpiece, for that model sax. I have tried 
several pieces, meant for a particular model sax and most play the 
correct pitch, without any special effort, because they are made 
right.  Sometimes I have to lip the pitch to it what it is supposed to 
be.  I say throw that piece away, or rework it to be right for that 
horn.

I have been reading of the trial and efforts of players to learn how 
to play the piece in pitch.  To this I say, baloney, if it is a 
problem to play it in pitch, the design is not balanced.

I have mismatched mouthpieces such as a Bb sop on a C sop, or alto and 
tenor pieces on a C melody.  They can be played that way with changes 
in embouchure control, but this is wrong, wrong, wrong.

In conclusion; make the chamber size & shape for "TONE," change the 
baffle & facing for "EDGE" and the length of shank for "TUNING 
POSITION."  Then check the pitch of the piece by itself and if it does 
not blow the right pitch, a new set of balancing dimensions must be 
established, so that the correct


FROM: kwbradbury (kwbradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: SIZE
Santy Runyon's mouthpiece pitch exercise is a guideline to obtaining 
an embouchure that minimizes intonation problems on a sax.  You can 
deviate by +/- .25-.5 step in pitch from his guidelines and still 
play well.  I do not think the pitch guidelines are universal enough 
to be usefull in mouthpiece design.  Nor were they meant to be.  You 
can give a great mouthpiece to a bunch of great players and they are 
not all going to obtain the same pitch by playing that mouthpiece 
alone off the horn.  I think they'll be close, but not close enough 
to judge a mouthpiece as good/bad for pitch unless it is WAY off.

So how should you judge chamber size for intonation?  I think after 
you use the pitch exercise to get a good embouchure, test the 
mouthpiece on a good sax.  Tune it so your F1 and F2 are on pitch, 
then try it over the rest of the range without changing your 
embouchure by a lot.  You may need to raise your tongue some for the 
palm key notes, especially on soprano, but you should avoid biting 
them sharp or "yawning" them flat.

Sopranos are very sensitive to chamber size and different players and 
different sopranos will require different chambers.  We live in 
wonderful times that there is such a selection to choose from to help 
minimize our problems.  If your palm keys are sharp, but the rest of 
the sax is playing in tune, try a smaller chamber mouthpiece.  What? 
Smaller chambers make you play sharper!  Sure, but you need to pull 
the mouthpiece out some to compensate and retune it on the sax.  What 
you get is a longer % cone length change on the high notes (short 
cone) compared to the low notes (long cone).  So the net result of 
the move to a smaller chamber is to bring the pitch of the high notes 
closer to the low notes.  For flat palm keys, do the opposite.  This 
will work on all saxes, but the soprano is really picky.

E. Ferron goes into this discussion further in his book with some 
light mathematics.  I can not duplicate all his mouthpiece placement 
results, but his priciples are sound.