Mouthpiece Work / How do materials and methods affect chamber designs?
FROM: tenorman1952 (tenorman@...)
SUBJECT: How do materials and methods affect chamber designs?
Steve: I have done some experimentation with chamber size vs tuning
tendencies, mostly with soprano sax. This would be a short treatise in
itself.
But perhaps Phil can give us more info on how the chamber relates to
tone, the throat area, amount of squeeze, other factors.
And in making metal mouthpieces, since many of these were from times
before CNC's capability to form complex shapes... how much were some
designs compromises from the limitation what could be machined, and how
much was for playing quality? For example, you could only machine in as
much baffle as you could reach through the window. From the shank end,
you drilled the bore until it ran into the baffle, and the bore formed
the chamber. So, how had the capability of forming complex shapes with
CNC improved what can be done here?
Paul
STEVE GOODSON wrote:
> Subject: Chamber designs? I hope that one or more of you mouthpiece
> gurus (especially Phil) would make some general comments on chamber
> design (beyond "large is dark, small is bright") and
> configuration. BTW, I'm really glad to see that this list is off to a
> good start with regard to participation. I'm particulary honored that
> Phil Barone has joined in. It's been my pleasure and honor to do
> business with him for a number of years, and I have the greatest
> admiration for his craftsmanship. STEVE GOODSON
> New Orleans
> www.saxgourmet.com
> (504) 895-6859 M-Th 10 - 3; Fr 10 - noon Steve endorses and uses
> UNISON saxophones;
> RUNYON mouthpieces; MASTERPIECE
> necks; HORN DOCTOR key clamps;
> MUSICMEDIC repair kits; and ED MYERS
> repair tools.
>
>
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FROM: tilemakerpro (VaKach@...)
SUBJECT: Re: How do materials and methods affect chamber designs?
I am not Phil.--- but I am a machinist that would like to put in my 2 cts. If part of the chamber was not accessible to machine before CNC capabilities, it is still not accessible. The tools have not changed. Before CNC there was 3-D pantograph duplicating machines using template or shape forms to generate the product. The ability to mass-produce pieces of like dimensions has changed with CNC. Accuracy has also improved and the ability to change offsets to the CNC program, or change the design features in the program, has become a "piece of cake." CNC machined pieces still have to be hand worked. The best benefit of CNC machining is in the making of Plastic Injection dies. To a computer generated shape. ---------------------------------- Additional Questions to Phil: (1)-As far as pitch: What is the factor that makes a Sop blow Db, alto A, Tenor. G Barritone Eb (off of the sax)? (2)-Also if the chamber size effects the tuning placement of the mpc. WHEN ON the sax, does this mean that the chamber size also effects whether the mpc. played ALONE will ever be capable of playing its respective Db, A, G or Eb? (3)-If the chamber is changed to achieve bright or dark tone, does the tuning and mpc. pitch go out? (4) What are the shape perimeters that determine each of the above?
FROM: philbarone2002 (Phil Barone)
SUBJECT: Re: How do materials and methods affect chamber designs?
Oh you're so right, CNC has just enables people to mass produce. Mr. Dave Guardal whom I have the utmost respect for still has to go into the chamber with a small drill and bore it out by hand. Also, wheather using CNC or manual machines, the pieces only come out as good as the jig or workholder. A mouthpiece is hard to clamp down so there's a lot of vibration.
In my opinion, the best mouthpieces are still cast or forged and CNC is only used in my shop to machine a priliminary facing and a pocket for the biteplate. I think CNC machined mouthpieces are a lot of hype but anyone that can even go to a level where they make a doorknop in respected in my book.
I'm not sure I understand your first question which also entwines with your second question but brighter mouthpieces with higher baffles generally play sharper so the mouthpiece has to come out a bit. I studied with Joe Allard and he believed the best result came when the mouthpiece was pushed in very far and the player played with a very loose embochure. I agree with this ad if I/you play sharp on all mouthpieces, I look inward, not at the equiptment. Hope every one is happy! Phil Barone
For all your mouthpiece needs
WWW.PhilBarone.com
WE HAVE THE LOWEST PRICES ON BAM CASES!
PhilBarone@PhilBarone.com
PH: (212) 686-9410
----- Original Message -----
From: VaKach@...
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] How do materials and methods affect chamber designs?
I am not Phil.--- but I am a machinist that would like to put in my 2 cts.
If part of the chamber was not accessible to machine before CNC capabilities,
it is still not accessible. The tools have not changed. Before CNC there was
3-D pantograph duplicating machines using template or shape forms to
generate the product. The ability to mass-produce pieces of like dimensions
has changed with CNC. Accuracy has also improved and the ability to change
offsets to the CNC program, or change the design features in the program, has
become a "piece of cake." CNC machined pieces still have to be hand worked.
The best benefit of CNC machining is in the making of Plastic Injection dies.
To a computer generated shape.
----------------------------------
Additional Questions to Phil:
(1)-As far as pitch: What is the factor that makes a Sop blow Db, alto A,
Tenor. G Barritone Eb (off of the sax)?
(2)-Also if the chamber size effects the tuning placement of the mpc. WHEN ON
the sax, does this mean that the chamber size also effects whether the mpc.
played ALONE will ever be capable of playing its respective Db, A, G or Eb?
(3)-If the chamber is changed to achieve bright or dark tone, does the tuning
and mpc. pitch go out?
(4) What are the shape perimeters that determine each of the above?
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